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Nov 14, 2018 14:25:54   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Abel wrote:
You people? I always wonder who "you people" refers to. Those who you say are out to change our government are those who want to restore the USA to a Constitutionally Limited form of a Republican Sovereign Nation. The Constitution is a document that limits what the government can do, not limit what the people do. I believe most legal US citizens are good people that want the best for the USA and it's legal citizens; very similar to what you say you believe. However, all Americans, actually most Americans, are not legal US citizens, and some Americans actually h**e the USA for many reasons that they perceive to be contrary to what their particular cult or culture believes under their various religious or ideologies. Under the umbrella of America, there are 35 different American countries, and the USA is just one of them. The USA is the one I am concerned about.

Old style Democrats didn't believe in C*******m, Marxism, Leninism, or any other Anti-USA governments, they believed in the USA, as a Sovereign Nation and fought in the wars against these various political ideas. I used to be one of them.

However, modern Democrats, the Progressives or wh**ever you want to call them, have changed their f**g and now operate and fight under the invisible f**g of the Deep State. The Deep state is alive and well whether you call it hogwash or not, and the CFR along the UN is a major part of of the Deep State. Our government has been infiltrated heavily with these people and President Trump is valiantly trying to rid the government of them. Modern Democrats have fallen prey to the agitprop and brainwashing of the Deep State and they are now puppets of the Deep State.

True Republicans still believe in the USA but the RINOs and the so-called "Resistance" are under the invisible f**g of the Deep State. It is the belief and goal of the Deep State to drive a wedge into the USA to split the Democrat and the Republicans under the philosophy that "United We Stand, Divided We Fall," and those who claim to be "Centrists" will simply be crushed by the leading edge of the wedge. Unless the Deep State can be destroyed, the USA will fall and become just another third world colony to be gobbled up under the New World Order, or One World Government, which will be controlled by a dictator, likely Chinese.

If the NWO is what you want, just keep thinking the way you do and promoting the Deep State and their i***tology, you might just get your wish. I'm old enough that I most likely won't see it happen, but I h**e to see my children, grand children and great grand children be placed in such a dire situation. I prefer that the USA be made great once again. Go Trump!
You people? I always wonder who "you people&q... (show quote)


My sentiments exactly!
https://static.onepoliticalplaza.com/upload/2018/11/14/t1-470921-ng_an_i***t_agree_with_you.jpg

Reply
Nov 15, 2018 00:27:16   #
oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)
 


That old Winston was something, wasn't he? I wonder if he could make it in today's world.

Reply
Nov 17, 2018 16:50:56   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Morgan wrote:
Democracy in its true sense of the word... is a government controlled and represented by the people, its citizens.

I often hear people argue (often quite militantly) that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that's a false dichotomy. A common definition of "republic" is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary,

"A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to v**e for officers and representatives responsible to them" — we are that. A common definition of "democracy" is, "Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives" — we are that, too.

The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority v**e. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it's only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.
Democracy in its true sense of the word... is a go... (show quote)


Is that the type of government our founders chose to create??? It appears many Americans don’t know the difference and what’s worse many don’t even care.....

One clear citing would be to please show where in the Constitution it says we are representative democracy...instead of a Constitutional republic...

What our founders chose can be verified in Article 4 section 4 of our Constitution, “A Republican form of Government”, not a representative form of democracy.. Why they choose this type of government is because
In a true Democracy all matters are determined “by a majority v**e and therefore individual rights do not exist.” As our founders explained so well in our “Declaration of Independence”.

“We hold these t***hs to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their “CREATOR” with certain “UNALIENABLE RIGHTS“, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. “THAT TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, GOVERNMENTS ARE INSTITUTED AMONG MEN, DERIVING THEIR JUST POWERS FROM THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED,”. (Emphasis mine).
Think about why, Morgan~~
They had experienced the rule of a Monarchy (Ruled by one) Ie. Kings or Queens, and knew that the one thing that nearly 1,000 years of history had shown them was that liberty was not something they could count on with that type of government, no matter what they were promised......

The founders were also aware of a type of government that is called an (Aristocracy, Rule of the best,) a type of (oligarchy, Ruled by a few) so this type of government would be considered to be ruled by “the few best suited to rule”. ...

They also knew that “Democracies” are not stable forms of governments and have always devolved into Anarchy and Dictatorships.. As we have seen through the years. . James Madison wrote “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.” This alone is a good reason to care....

Each of these types of government are naturally formed and have some benefits of there own, Ie. a Monarchy would work well with a Football team or an Army, where one leader is needed to call the plays. And a Aristocracy works well with the family where the parents have the sk**ls needed to run the household and pay the bills....And a well managed power in the hands of the people is a favorable aspect of a Democracy, however, by themselves our founders found them unfit and very dangerous..

The founders declared a Republic because it took the best qualities of each type of governments including your representative democracy and merged them into one, and the governing principles are based on law that is set forth in the foundation of our Constitution which establishes supremacy for all other laws to be made.... We the people make them, our representatives turn them into law, federal or state level...

Another point that must be made clear is… That our Republic being a “Construct” as opposed to a naturally evolving form of government is also a form of self governance and “the people remain sovereign in that they created States and State Government, and that, States “through consent of the people” contracted with other States to create our national government. The creator is superior to the created in other words..

The word “Sovereign” means to have supreme power or authority. This can be confirmed in both the “Lee Resolution of June 1776 and the Declaration of Independance...

Or how about this??? Its been said that, A Republic recognizes the sovereign nature of the people and must be representative in its nature. If the Government can control its laws, then the law does not control the Government and therefore not a Republic. Whereas in a democracy, true democracy I mean, they rule and not the people...

A Republican Government is given specific limitations on what it can do and must recognize that laws can only be changed by a higher source than its self, that is by the consent of the people through there representatives....

Recognizing “ a form of democracy” within the definition of our country is not correct..It begins the decline of the republic..
It is only yet another avenue urilized to get things up and running while we as a Republic control what those other things are going to be.. Not some government of rulers over us..

Reply
 
 
Nov 17, 2018 18:12:56   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Morgan wrote:
Try not to state your opinion as fact. ie. The real movers of this country is the deep state operatives that want full socialism/c*******m regardless of how you try to diffuse the real intent of the movement now in place.. The placated dems/rino’s, republicans are the puppets... Why do you think we never get any real change on the hill?? Until Trump, the one they are trying so desparately to take down..He doesn’t play by their rules and does have them wallowing in their own feces and kicking their own butts.....

You obviously don't seem to understand what a democracy is, and to how it relates to our republic.
Some framing-era commentators made arguments that distinguished "democracy" and "republic", for example:

John Adams used the term "representative democracy" in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of B****stone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. Tucker's B****stone likewise uses "democracy" to describe a representative democracy, even when the qualifier "representative" is omitted.

In the Federalist (No. 10), as well as other numbers of the Federalist papers a "representative democracy" was understood as a form of democracy, alongside "pure democracy": A representative democracy is less explicit but in tune with a considered republic, we happen to be a Constitutional Federal Republic which falls under the umbrella of a democracy, a government elected by its people.
Try not to state your opinion as fact. ie. The rea... (show quote)


“Try not to state your opinion as fact”~~~ Its all still “ just your opinion” no matter what isn’t it?? Or is it Washington posts?? Its a good article you should have posted it all..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.610a332d02a2


Don’t you find the name of the Federalist papers interesting?? I do..The supporters of the proposed Constitution called themselves "Federalists." Their adopted name implied a commitment to a loose, decentralized system of government. In many respects federalism...

I’ve addressed Federalist #10 before, here’s a bit more of it~~As Im trying to formulate your comment about it in application to representative democracy~~

“If a faction consists of less than a majority, relief is supplied by the republican principle, which enables the majority to defeat its sinister views by regular v**e. It may clog the administration, it may convulse the society; but it will be unable to execute and mask its violence under the forms of the Constitution. When a majority is included in a faction, the form of popular government, on the other hand, enables it to sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens. To secure the public good and private rights against the danger of such a faction, and at the same time to preserve the spirit and the form of popular government, is then the great object to which our inquiries are directed. Let me add that it is the great desideratum by which this form of government can be rescued from the opprobrium under which it has so long labored, and be recommended to the esteem and adoption of mankind.”

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.

The effect of the first difference is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the purpose. On the other hand, the effect may be inverted. Men of factious tempers, of local prejudices, or of sinister designs, may, by intrigue, by corruption, or by other means, first obtain the suffrages, and then betray the interests, of the people. The question resulting is, whether small or extensive republics are more favorable to the e******n of proper guardians of the public weal; and it is clearly decided in favor of the latter by two obvious considerations:

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.
And now please feel free to read the whole passage.. Its brilliant...

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/primary-source-documents/the-federalist-papers/federalist-papers-no-10/

In other words I would disagree and suggest The Founding Fathers did not want democracy to rule. "Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths … A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." — James Madison, Federalist Papers No. 10.

Reply
Nov 17, 2018 20:26:12   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
lindajoy wrote:
“Try not to state your opinion as fact”~~~ Its all still “ just your opinion” no matter what isn’t it?? Or is it Washington posts?? Its a good article you should have posted it all..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.610a332d02a2


Don’t you find the name of the Federalist papers interesting?? I do..The supporters of the proposed Constitution called themselves "Federalists." Their adopted name implied a commitment to a loose, decentralized system of government. In many respects federalism...

I’ve addressed Federalist #10 before, here’s a bit more of it~~As Im trying to formulate your comment about it in application to representative democracy~~

“If a faction consists of less than a majority, relief is supplied by the republican principle, which enables the majority to defeat its sinister views by regular v**e. It may clog the administration, it may convulse the society; but it will be unable to execute and mask its violence under the forms of the Constitution. When a majority is included in a faction, the form of popular government, on the other hand, enables it to sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens. To secure the public good and private rights against the danger of such a faction, and at the same time to preserve the spirit and the form of popular government, is then the great object to which our inquiries are directed. Let me add that it is the great desideratum by which this form of government can be rescued from the opprobrium under which it has so long labored, and be recommended to the esteem and adoption of mankind.”

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.

The effect of the first difference is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the purpose. On the other hand, the effect may be inverted. Men of factious tempers, of local prejudices, or of sinister designs, may, by intrigue, by corruption, or by other means, first obtain the suffrages, and then betray the interests, of the people. The question resulting is, whether small or extensive republics are more favorable to the e******n of proper guardians of the public weal; and it is clearly decided in favor of the latter by two obvious considerations:

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.
And now please feel free to read the whole passage.. Its brilliant...

https://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/primary-source-documents/the-federalist-papers/federalist-papers-no-10/

In other words I would disagree and suggest The Founding Fathers did not want democracy to rule. "Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths … A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." — James Madison, Federalist Papers No. 10.
“Try not to state your opinion as fact”~~~ Its all... (show quote)


"In other words I would disagree and suggest The Founding Fathers did not want democracy to rule. "Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths … A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." — James Madison, Federalist Papers No. 10." - lindajoy]

It is unlikely that Morgan is able to figure that out.
Why we were given a Republic instead of a Democracy.

Reply
Nov 17, 2018 20:30:52   #
Seth
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"In other words I would disagree and suggest The Founding Fathers did not want democracy to rule. "Hence it is that democr asacies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths … A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." — James Madison, Federalist Papers No. 10." - lindajoy]



It is unlikely that Morgan is able to figure that out.
Why we were given a Republic instead of a Democracy.
"In other words I would disagree and suggest ... (show quote)


It probably stems from the penchant the folks on the left have for mob rule.

Reply
Nov 17, 2018 21:37:22   #
tactful Loc: just North of the District of LMAO
 
Seth wrote:
It probably stems from the penchant the folks on the left have for mob rule.


oh and those " nice people " on the right were not a mob that took someone's life in Charlottesville?
what's wrong with this picture? not left or right just concerned about the lack of compassion among human beings today.
Get it Now by the Youngbloods could play out these days instead of the fearmonging being spread that is seeming to bring about Barry Mcquires eve of destruction type flavor complete with Buffalo Springfield's for what it's worth that truly brings out signs of the times?great tunes all.

it seems more and more like make America h**e again these days instead of unification and mending of the country's fabric and united state of mind does it not?

smile it's good for you 😊😀😊😀
gentle reminder with volume to make sense : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGL8CiUtXF0

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2018 01:01:19   #
Seth
 
tactful wrote:
oh and those " nice people " on the right were not a mob that took someone's life in Charlottesville?
what's wrong with this picture? not left or right just concerned about the lack of compassion among human beings today.
Get it Now by the Youngbloods could play out these days instead of the fearmonging being spread that is seeming to bring about Barry Mcquires eve of destruction type flavor complete with Buffalo Springfield's for what it's worth that truly brings out signs of the times?great tunes all.

it seems more and more like make America h**e again these days instead of unification and mending of the country's fabric and united state of mind does it not?

smile it's good for you 😊😀😊😀
gentle reminder with volume to make sense : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGL8CiUtXF0
oh and those " nice people " on the righ... (show quote)
.

I love the way the left can assail conservatives, mob, vandalize and wreak havoc on a daily basis, but when a single isolated incident occurs to the right of the political divide, you lefties milk it forever.

I understand why, though. It's so rare that the kind of h**e practiced on the left can be found on the starboard side that you people on the port side have to get every millimeter of mileage you can out if it, even years down the road.

-- "Pitiful, just... pitiful."

Reply
Nov 18, 2018 09:13:21   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"In other words I would disagree and suggest The Founding Fathers did not want democracy to rule. "Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths … A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." — James Madison, Federalist Papers No. 10." - lindajoy]

It is unlikely that Morgan is able to figure that out.
Why we were given a Republic instead of a Democracy.
"In other words I would disagree and suggest ... (show quote)


Democracy is a part of judicial process to some degree .. More in the manuvering of how we accomplish things, while a Republic makes clear we the people, all people determine what is~~ Democracy can be hijacked to suit the powers to be while our Republic shows no consideration to such... Kind of like all or nothing..Thank God for our Constitution!!!

Have we not witnessed years of politicians that look to control all.. ?? Hell, we’re living it right now!!!
The NWO movement, the Deep State operatives, the Illuminati, One World Order~ all and any of them look to over throw our Republic but are constantly blocked by the greater will of the people!! Amen and keep kicken butt, we the people will! Nothing left to chance we can not afford it!!!

Reply
Nov 18, 2018 09:27:17   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
tactful wrote:
oh and those " nice people " on the right were not a mob that took someone's life in Charlottesville?
what's wrong with this picture? not left or right just concerned about the lack of compassion among human beings today.
Get it Now by the Youngbloods could play out these days instead of the fearmonging being spread that is seeming to bring about Barry Mcquires eve of destruction type flavor complete with Buffalo Springfield's for what it's worth that truly brings out signs of the times?great tunes all.

it seems more and more like make America h**e again these days instead of unification and mending of the country's fabric and united state of mind does it not?

smile it's good for you 😊😀😊😀
gentle reminder with volume to make sense : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGL8CiUtXF0
oh and those " nice people " on the righ... (show quote)


Neither party is right about everything nor do they work for the benefit of the people... This is where We the People have failed ourselves by letting our elected do as they please rather than calling them out for ousting, charges if crimes occur, to not making them responsible but accountable for their action... We have allowed way too much and that pendulum of justice is now swinging back to the people fed up with the whole bureaucratic BS they put out.. They have pushed us to far and we are letting it be known..About dang time!!!

Unite is exactly what is needed yet it seems that is almost too far a reach..Politicians would rsther fight betwern them than to deal with the issues of our country.. I thought the h**e promoted under Bo with all the r****t this and that was over.. Hardly, now the coined phrase of “ w***e s*******y” is the new h**er promoted..

If we are to change the propaganda put out to incite then we must recognize a desire to simply stop being a follower and be a leader instead. Starts and stops with us...

Good video, Thank You for posting it..

https://youtu.be/hYJKBnGZnMA

Reply
Nov 18, 2018 09:42:09   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Seth wrote:
.

I love the way the left can assail conservatives, mob, vandalize and wreak havoc on a daily basis, but when a single isolated incident occurs to the right of the political divide, you lefties milk it forever.

I understand why, though. It's so rare that the kind of h**e practiced on the left can be found on the starboard side that you people on the port side have to get every millimeter of mileage you can out if it, even years down the road.

-- "Pitiful, just... pitiful."
. br br I love the way the left can assail conser... (show quote)


The level of h**e is damn near impregnable yet perseverance must remain diligent in spite of the obstacle..



Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2018 10:03:43   #
Seth
 
lindajoy wrote:
The level of h**e is damn near impregnable yet perseverance must remain diligent in spite of the obstacle..


I remember Dyer. The "Your Erroneous Zones" author.

Reply
Nov 18, 2018 10:06:49   #
tactful Loc: just North of the District of LMAO
 
Seth wrote:
.

I love the way the left can assail conservatives, mob, vandalize and wreak havoc on a daily basis, but when a single isolated incident occurs to the right of the political divide, you lefties milk it forever.

I understand why, though. It's so rare that the kind of h**e practiced on the left can be found on the starboard side that you people on the port side have to get every millimeter of mileage you can out if it, even years down the road.

-- "Pitiful, just... pitiful."
. br br I love the way the left can assail conser... (show quote)


Major problem there seth.
I am not on the left as much as you would like to read that into it ,it's just not true but facts remain h**e,violence, and unt***hs prevail in our country that as LJ points out We the People need to change our ways not our so called elected politicians who seem only to stoke or fan all that is wrong.

Reply
Nov 18, 2018 10:08:30   #
tactful Loc: just North of the District of LMAO
 
lindajoy wrote:
The level of h**e is damn near impregnable yet perseverance must remain diligent in spite of the obstacle..


👍

Reply
Nov 18, 2018 10:17:44   #
Seth
 
tactful wrote:
Major problem there seth.
I am not on the left as much as you would like to read that into it ,it's just not true but facts remain h**e,violence, and unt***hs prevail in our country that as LJ points out We the People need to change our ways not our so called elected politicians who seem only to stoke or fan all that is wrong.


That needs to be absorbed on the left side of the political equation moreso than on the right.

Contrary to what I hear about "h**e" from Democrats describing conservatives, the vast majority of folks on the right are more apt to abide by the rule of law and v**e at the polls, not via disrupting Democrats' family dinners at restaurants, congregating threateningly outside their homes or vandalizing their offices.

This extremely immature behavior is not acceptable to most conservatives, but it seems like business as usual for today's Democrats.

None of my conservative friends would even dream of conducting themselves thusly.

Reply
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