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Roe v Wade
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Jul 9, 2018 16:58:20   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
That is supposition. It depends on each situation on the bell curve, there are many variables she can however not relinquish and maintain her sovereignty over her being. The embryo thru fetus is a parasite within her body, not even a symbiotic relationship. unless the pregnant, sovereign, American Citizen, a beneficiary of the founding documents, of age, in her right mind, authorizes it the embryo is hers. of her only. she knows who the father is yatayata she has unalienable rights period.

Within The United States of America she was declared a sovereign American by Donald J. Trump POTUSA. The 16th amendment was never ratified another fraud. Murder is not private in our Constitutional Republic. apples and oranges analogy. Is it private or public is she an American national or a US citizen?


JoyV wrote:
My reply was not to a question. It was to a statement that "A woman has no control over her life is she gets pregnant when she doesn't want to."

So if a private decision to murder a spouse is made and carried out; would you say "it is a private matter?" And if it is a private matter, why are my tax dollars being spent on it. If the taxpayers are paying, it is no longer a private matter!

Reply
Jul 9, 2018 20:23:47   #
JoyV
 
Bad Bob wrote:
Murder is murder, all complicit are guilty. Very simple, just like the guy in the get away car.


But what if a friend asked for a lift and when he got to the destination and got out of the car he robbed the place. When giving the lift you had no idea he was going to commit a crime. But if he planned a robbery and you knew it yet gave him a lift to the place anyway; that would be a very different story. The same with an a******n. If a man and woman had unprotected sex and she became pregnant, it was both of their choices which resulted in the pregnancy. If they both agreed to her having an a******n, they'd both be complicit in murder. But if she went to have an a******n without his knowledge, how could he be complicit in the murder?

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Jul 9, 2018 20:31:54   #
JoyV
 
ron vrooman wrote:
That is supposition. It depends on each situation on the bell curve, there are many variables she can however not relinquish and maintain her sovereignty over her being. The embryo thru fetus is a parasite within her body, not even a symbiotic relationship. unless the pregnant, sovereign, American Citizen, a beneficiary of the founding documents, of age, in her right mind, authorizes it the embryo is hers. of her only. she knows who the father is yatayata she has unalienable rights period.

Within The United States of America she was declared a sovereign American by Donald J. Trump POTUSA. The 16th amendment was never ratified another fraud. Murder is not private in our Constitutional Republic. apples and oranges analogy. Is it private or public is she an American national or a US citizen?
That is supposition. It depends on each situation ... (show quote)


You only speak of her rights and not the baby's. And you speak as if her decision can only happen AFTER she is pregnant. She already authorized it when she knowingly allowed herself to get pregnant and started a new life. Once that life is started, there are TWO lives involved. Not just hers. A parasite does not magically become a baby at 9 months. If someone assaults a pregnant woman which results in her losing the baby (note the term is not losing the parasite), that person can be charged with murder. If both die, it is a double homicide. Not a homicide and parasite elimination.

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Jul 9, 2018 20:37:34   #
EmilyD
 
JoyV wrote:
You only speak of her rights and not the baby's. And you speak as if her decision can only happen AFTER she is pregnant. She already authorized it when she knowingly allowed herself to get pregnant and started a new life. Once that life is started, there are TWO lives involved. Not just hers. A parasite does not magically become a baby at 9 months. If someone assaults a pregnant woman which results in her losing the baby (note the term is not losing the parasite), that person can be charged with murder. If both die, it is a double homicide. Not a homicide and parasite elimination.
You only speak of her rights and not the baby's. ... (show quote)


Exactly - as in the case of Scott Peterson. He was convicted of first degree murder of his wife and second degree murder of his unborn son, Connor. (note - not "child" - they knew the baby was a boy and he had a name). He is currently serving life and is on death row awaiting lethal injection.

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Jul 9, 2018 20:44:43   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
opinion used to bolster your claim that a woman can be denied her unalienable rights to suit your definitions.

JoyV wrote:
You only speak of her rights and not the baby's. And you speak as if her decision can only happen AFTER she is pregnant. She already authorized it when she knowingly allowed herself to get pregnant and started a new life. Once that life is started, there are TWO lives involved. Not just hers. A parasite does not magically become a baby at 9 months. If someone assaults a pregnant woman which results in her losing the baby (note the term is not losing the parasite), that person can be charged with murder. If both die, it is a double homicide. Not a homicide and parasite elimination.
You only speak of her rights and not the baby's. ... (show quote)

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Jul 9, 2018 20:47:40   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Bad Bob wrote:
Murder is murder, all complicit are guilty. Very simple, just like the guy in the get away car.

Murder is murder, you are right...

However, Roe vs Wade does not fit the legal definition of murder if the a******n is done within the time frame established by the courts and therefore is not murder.. The argument being the fetus is not yet a viable life sustaining fetus until it reaches 20/24 weeks gestation..

Passing a death penalty punishment is also murder under your analogy but not by legal definition.. Are those k*****g the prisoner for his action murderers as well???

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Jul 9, 2018 20:47:58   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
Has nothing to do with the case. Emotion and diversion. No rule, statute, regulation or ruling trumps an unalienable Constitutional Republic Guaranteed right.

EmilyD wrote:
Exactly - as in the case of Scott Peterson. He was convicted of first degree murder of his wife and second degree murder of his unborn son, Connor. (note - not "child" - they knew the baby was a boy and he had a name). He is currently serving life and is on death row awaiting lethal injection.

Reply
 
 
Jul 9, 2018 20:57:34   #
EmilyD
 
ron vrooman wrote:
Has nothing to do with the case. Emotion and diversion. No rule, statute, regulation or ruling trumps an unalienable Constitutional Republic Guaranteed right.


Well, he was convicted with murdering an unborn baby by the court. It just doesn't seem right that his unborn baby mattered, but all the aborted (unborn) babies don't matter at all.

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Jul 9, 2018 21:15:59   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
the conversation is about unalienable right in our Constitutional Republic. Not your interpretation of murder, right, correct , moral. all that is not germane in a Constitutional Republic.

It isn't about good or bad, correct or incorrect, moral or immoral, It is about lawful and unlawful in our Constitutional Republic.

Unalienable rights are just that! for people on the land. People have standing and are defined. Usurpation is unlawful and challenged in USCIT.

EmilyD wrote:
Well, he was convicted with murdering an unborn baby by the court. It just doesn't seem right that his unborn baby mattered, but all the aborted (unborn) babies don't matter at all.

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Jul 9, 2018 21:17:49   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
I love the way you express yourself.

lindajoy wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
Murder is murder, all complicit are guilty. Very simple, just like the guy in the get away car.

Murder is murder, you are right...

However, Roe vs Wade does not fit the legal definition of murder if the a******n is done within the time frame established by the courts and therefore is not murder.. The argument being the fetus is not yet a viable life sustaining fetus until it reaches 20/24 weeks gestation..

Passing a death penalty punishment is also murder under your analogy but not by legal definition.. Are those k*****g the prisoner for his action murderers as well???
Bad Bob wrote: br Murder is murder, all complicit ... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 9, 2018 21:22:52   #
JoyV
 
ron vrooman wrote:
Has nothing to do with the case. Emotion and diversion. No rule, statute, regulation or ruling trumps an unalienable Constitutional Republic Guaranteed right.


There is no constitutional guarantee to a******ns! There are no amendments regarding a******ns. The Supreme Court applied the Due Process Clause in the 5th and 14th amendments to cover a******ns. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law. So the very clause which is suppose to safeguard against arbitrary denial of life, is used to sanction arbitrary k*****g of babies.

But in many states, k*****g babies is murder including for the unborn. The following list is a list of states whose homicide laws cover the unborn throughout the entire time of pregnancy.

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisianna
Michigan
Mennesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin

The following list of states have homicide laws which cover part of the time of pregnancy.


California
Maryland
Massachusetts
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Washington

And New York has conflicting laws making it a homicide to k**l an unborn, and another defining a person as having to be born.

Reply
 
 
Jul 9, 2018 21:23:38   #
EmilyD
 
ron vrooman wrote:
the conversation is about unalienable right in our Constitutional Republic. Not your interpretation of murder, right, correct , moral. all that is not germane in a Constitutional Republic.

It isn't about good or bad, correct or incorrect, moral or immoral, It is about lawful and unlawful in our Constitutional Republic.

Unalienable rights are just that! for people on the land. People have standing and are defined. Usurpation is unlawful and challenged in USCIT.


I thought this was a public forum where I could express my opinion. It is my OPINION that it does not seem right that one unborn baby matters when other unborn babies do not matter.

Reply
Jul 9, 2018 21:30:28   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
There are enumerated powers for federal government. Government was replaced in 1860 or 61 with corporate governance. When the Constitution is silent, then it is reserved for a state as in several states or American Citizens. There is no law after sine di.

JoyV wrote:
There is no constitutional guarantee to a******ns! There are no amendments regarding a******ns. The Supreme Court applied the Due Process Clause in the 5th and 14th amendments to cover a******ns. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law. So the very clause which is suppose to safeguard against arbitrary denial of life, is used to sanction arbitrary k*****g of babies.

But in many states, k*****g babies is murder including for the unborn. The following list is a list of states whose homicide laws cover the unborn throughout the entire time of pregnancy.

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisianna
Michigan
Mennesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin

The following list of states have homicide laws which cover part of the time of pregnancy.


California
Maryland
Massachusetts
Montana
Nevada
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Washington

And New York has conflicting laws making it a homicide to k**l an unborn, and another defining a person as having to be born.
There is no constitutional guarantee to a******ns!... (show quote)

Reply
Jul 9, 2018 22:39:28   #
EmilyD
 
ron vrooman wrote:
There are enumerated powers for federal government. Government was replaced in 1860 or 61 with corporate governance. When the Constitution is silent, then it is reserved for a state as in several states or American Citizens. There is no law after sine di.


Unless someone appoints a date. I want to speak for the babies, ron vrooman. If you aren't a father I understand, but if you have a baby in your arms and look her or him in their blue eyes (isn't it amazing that all babies are born with blue elyes that change as they develop) and don't feel the love at that moment. You will not understand. And when your doctor shows you an ultrasound of your baby's beating heart and moving arms and legs, you will not understand. You will never understand until you see it for yourself. It IS a miracle.

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Jul 9, 2018 23:25:29   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
I see where you miss IT.

You see exceptions to the rule on infanticide. There is no exception in freedom and liberty. It's just a little infanticide however we cannot attach our guilt to the female American Citizen. So we ignore it this time. Are you new? what about those other 90% cures besides cunnaligus. (sp) I can see it but can't spell it.


JoyV wrote:
Yes. A woman has the right to decide whether or not to have a child. Once that decision is made, it is her responsibility to see to the child's needs, or see that the child is given to someone else who will do so. She should not have the right to change her mind by eliminating the child from her body once the child exists. The choice was already made before she got pregnant. She CHOSE to engage in pregnancy causing activity without preventing herself getting pregnant (unless she was raped). That choice was hers to make and she made it. One made she could still change her mind on raising a child, but should not have the right to decide on whether or not that child has the right to live. She chose to start a baby inside her body, by not preventing it. That was her choice. To end its life is no different than ending its life after birth. Would you feel the same about a private individual who decides to eliminate a baby after 11 months from the start of her pregnancy? No one should force her to raise a child she does not want. She could choose not to raise a child by giving it up for adopting. But should her right to live her life without being saddled by a child mean she should be legally allowed to commit infanticide? Now maybe some feel infanticide should be legal. Aborting an unborn baby is also infanticide which is legal because of the age of the infant, counting from the start of pregnancy.
Yes. A woman has the right to decide whether or no... (show quote)

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