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The Michael Cohen raid should terrify Donald Trump
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Apr 10, 2018 12:27:11   #
Bad Bob Loc: Virginia
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
I saw that slatten and am mortified that Napolitano actually said that. One has to be completely open & honest with one's attorney in such matters. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. It's part of the process.

If you remember back that far, liberals were horrified at the Nixon people's burglary of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office & I agree with them. In Nixon's pathetic speech he cited he cited priest-confessor, attorney-client and excluded doctor-patient as privileged.

The FBI Director and those agents should be arrested and tried for crimes.
I saw that slatten and am mortified that Napolitan... (show quote)


Good morning Crazyzealot.

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Apr 10, 2018 12:29:18   #
Bad Bob Loc: Virginia
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
I saw that slatten and am mortified that Napolitano actually said that. One has to be completely open & honest with one's attorney in such matters. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. It's part of the process.

If you remember back that far, liberals were horrified at the Nixon people's burglary of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office & I agree with them. In Nixon's pathetic speech he cited he cited priest-confessor, attorney-client and excluded doctor-patient as privileged.

The FBI Director and those agents should be arrested and tried for crimes.
I saw that slatten and am mortified that Napolitan... (show quote)


What crimes Crazy?

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Apr 10, 2018 13:00:13   #
Bad Bob Loc: Virginia
 
EL wrote:
The whole country has gone sour. That's why they're after Trump. He's trying to clean it up.
I'd LOVE to take over their budget, wouldn't you? Cut socialism right out!


What socialism?

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Apr 10, 2018 14:16:48   #
oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)
 
mark medicus wrote:
I'm a democrat and it terrifies me.. This is the United States, we are becoming the United States Socialist Republic...what has happened to my party we used to stand for people..now we stand for socialism..


I was a Democrat until they nominated an avowed Socialist for President in 1972. Look at the people they have nominated for President since that time and find that they don't nominate anybody but socialists. McGovern leaned far left and since that year all of them have leaned a bit too far for me.

I stopped v****g for people like McGovern and in looking back find that the Dems have not nominated anybody who didn't lean left. Now, Clinton did manage to appear to be centrist but only for v**es. Hillary couldn't even appear to be centrist and only fools believed that Obama wasn't a bit too far left. I have an old Army buddy who lives in New Jersey who is at least as far right leaning as I am who already calls our nation the SAR. (Socialist American Republic)

Now back to Slatten's subject. Our people all the time talking about that judge is a Trump appointee. I keep wondering about that when we haven't been told the name of that judge. Lefties do play that game quite well and often fool the rest of us with those words. If you don't see judges leaning one way or the other you aren't trying.

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Apr 10, 2018 14:29:13   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
The Michael Cohen raid should terrify all American's who give a damn. What this entire spectacle is doing is dismantling the American justice system. Police state tactics are unconstitutional and anti-American.

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Apr 10, 2018 14:40:32   #
oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)
 
moldyoldy wrote:
The Justice Department has extensive rules about seizing records of lawyers that could typically fall under attorney-client privilege. Prosecutors are required to consult with the the Criminal Division at Main Justice, and to get the sign off of the U.S. attorney overseeing the investigation or the relevant assistant attorney general. It’s also recommended that a special team of attorneys who are walled off from the prosecutors overseeing the inquiry be set up to review the potentially privileged documents.
“It’s procedurally cumbersome, it’s sensitive, it raises the hackles of the bar,” Sam Buell, a former prosecutor who worked on the Enron investigation, told TPM. “It’s not done on a fishing expedition. It’s only done when you’re reasonably confident that you’re going to find evidence of criminality and you need to do it with a search warrant.”
Investigators’ willingness to go the route of a high-profile raid, instead of a less intrusive subpoena or even a voluntary request for documents, suggested to outside experts that there’s at least some concern that Cohen could be withholding evidence.
“It tells you that, one, they had some pretty compelling reason to think that Cohen was not or would not produce the records they were trying to get in response to a subpoena” Sanchez said, adding that he’d, “infer that they have some evidence he has already withheld something that he claimed to have turned over.”

Secondly, Sanchez said, the move suggests that the prosecutors would have reason to believe that the records that they are seeking would be exempt from attorney-client privilege. The most obvious exception, Sanchez said, is the crime-fraud exemption which applies to communications made in the furtherance of a crime.
“If you’re talking to your attorney about a crime you’ve already committed, that’s privileged,” Sanchez said. “If you’re talking to your attorney to get them to help you to commit crime, that’s the part that’s not privileged.”
Former prosecutors also said that move to hand off the inquiry to federal prosecutors in New York once Mueller f**gged the information shows that the special counsel is playing it by the book, even as President Trump and his allies suggest that he’s on a witch hunt.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/michael-cohen-fbi-raid-experts-react
The Justice Department has extensive rules about s... (show quote)


Hey, Moldy, why would such a grand bunch as TPM talk about subpoenas from anyone when they never talk about subpoenas from Congress that turn up with things so heavily redacted, if anything at all. Yes, we both know that TPM leans very far left but talking about those subpoenas and never mentioning the words of Gowdy about the subpoenas that aren't answered by left leaners and others left over, certainly part of the Deep State. It seems to me that you of the severe left lean really don't think the Congress should hear anything except when Dems control the house that issued the subpoena.

It has been mentioned here, in this thread, that we have become so political on so many things that the t***h is buried on one side or the other. I used to be like many Dems of today who are finding it harder and harder to go along with the Socialist Democrat Party and when they left me I had to leave them. Can the Party manage to not lose many members between now and November?

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Apr 10, 2018 14:51:27   #
slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas
 
Just picked up from Yahoo News:

Geoffrey Berman, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is recused from the Michael Cohen investigation, ABC News has learned.

Berman was not involved in the decision to raid Cohen's office because of the recusal, two sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News

The recusal was approved by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

The raid of Cohen's handled by others in the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and approved by a federal judge.

Berman is a Trump appointee with ties to Rudy Giuliani who donated money to the 2016 Trump campaign.

The U.S. Attorney's office declined to comment.

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Apr 10, 2018 14:51:29   #
oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)
 
JFlorio wrote:
Brilliant bumpkin. The client attorney relationship must be sacrosanct for our judicial system to work. Think about where this started. There was a very questionable Russia, Trump investigation started by ardent anti-Trumpers.. The entire investigation was centered around supposed Trump, Russian collusion. What came out. Trump has had no collusion with Russians that is illegal. However; there is strong evidence that a corrupt FBI and DOJ conspired to bring down a duly elected President. Exactly why the million or so documents subpoenaed by the over site committee have been slow walked to them. Of course you and you ilk don't care about this. You are more about party than country. Before you say your an independent don't waste your time. We know what you are.
Brilliant bumpkin. The client attorney relationshi... (show quote)


Gawdamighty have you smacked them upside the head. You smacked the major, especially, just as I wanted to do but you beat me to it. Now I have used your words to do that trick. Thanks for the help.

Isn't something to think about what THEY are willing to do to find some of that collusion they are supposed to find? I wonder if many of our leaners have been listening to Trump talk about the Russians and the Syrians. Of course, they haven't since their informants, CNN, MSNBC and the like, don't show anything that may allow their viewers to see that what the left is doing is only aimed at destroying Trump.

While I am at it, I have to wonder just what they wanted to find other than records that showed Cohen paying off Stormy. Can you find anything to do with collusion with Russia in the Stormy story? I can't but our leaners seem to think there is something there.

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Apr 10, 2018 15:01:15   #
theotts
 
slatten49 wrote:
Fox News explains exactly why the Michael Cohen raid should terrify Donald Trump

Attorney-client privilege doesn't apply if there's "a serious allegation of illegal activity."

Addy Baird, Apr 9, 2018, 6:32 pm

On Monday, FBI agents raided the office and residences of Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump’s longtime personal attorney. The search warrants reportedly included conversations between Cohen and Trump, who has been Cohen’s only client for years.

The search reportedly included, possibly among other things, documents related a $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels, which Cohen made just days before the 2016 e******n. Daniels, an adult film actress, says she had an affair with Trump in 2006.

But it was the approval of the search warrants themselves that should terrify Trump. The best explanation, remarkably, came from Andrew Napolitano, a Fox News legal analyst. Napolitano explained that, under normal circumstances, communications between Trump and his attorney are privileged. But this privilege does not apply if there is “a serious allegation of illegal activity, by the lawyer with the client,” he said.

“There must be some evidence presented to a federal judge here in New York City sufficient to persuade that judge to sign a search warrant to permit the FBI in broad daylight to raid an attorney’s office, particularly when that attorney has one client and it happens to be the president of the United States,” Napolitano told Fox News’ Neil Cavuto.

“That evidence would have to be such as to persuade a neutral observer, the federal judge, that it is more likely than not, that among these seized documents is evidence of crimes by Mr. Cohen or Mr. Cohen and the president,” he continued.

The crime in question, Napolitano speculated, could be related to the $130,000 payment to Daniels.

Napolitano did echo some of Fox News’ favorite arguments about the ongoing investigation into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia during the 2016 p**********l e******n, saying there “seems to be no limit” to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe. But then Napolitano reiterated that a judge would only issue the warrant if there was sufficient “evidence of crimes.”

“You’re talking about the most confidential and protected relationship there is — lawyer and client — and the federal government has just invaded that with the express authority and approval of a federal judge, who may only permit that invasion when she or he, the federal judge, has been satisfied that it’s more likely than not that in those materials are evidence of crimes,” he said.

It would be a crime, Napolitano went on to say, if the Trump campaign accepted a gift of $130,000, and if the funds came from the campaign. In that instance, “all bets are off,” as Cavuto put it.

What makes Napolitano’s comments Monday even more interesting is that when Napolitano talks, Trump listens. Trump directly echoed Napolitano’s arguments on Fox in a recent tweet about government surveillance shortly after Napolitano appeared on the network, and the White House has cited Napolitano’s claim, without evidence, that British intelligence operatives had surveilled Trump Tower as a favor to Barack Obama during the 2016 campaign.

According to a report from February, the president and Napolitano have spoken a number of times in recent months, as well.
Fox News explains exactly why the Michael Cohen ra... (show quote)





A warrant was issued for the seizure of records. That means there was found to be probable cause, and that means the records seized were shown to be material evidence in the investigation of a crime. Discussions of the commission of a crime, or subornation of perjury are NOT privileged conversations.
But then, given the criminal stupidity of the Trumpista, none of their mindless babbling is privileged.

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Apr 10, 2018 15:04:05   #
oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)
 
working class stiff wrote:
Yeah, 'the left' has a ton of soft power. Only explanation I can conjure.


Is there any chance that that "soft power" is used when the FBI and the DOJ softwalk all their information to Congressional subpoenas? Aw hell, they don't do things like that, do they? I think there is a chance that a whole bunch of those people need to be "fired" and replaced with people who don't think that the executive branch doesn't have to work with the legislative branch. They had 8 years to get all that kind of thinking deeply entrenched in their thinking and now we are getting to suffer from that kind of thinking. Of course, the DOJ and the FBI don't make the whole branch although they seem to think they do.

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Apr 10, 2018 15:18:33   #
Bad Bob Loc: Virginia
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
The Michael Cohen raid should terrify all American's who give a damn. What this entire spectacle is doing is dismantling the American justice system. Police state tactics are unconstitutional and anti-American.


So is crime, lockum up.

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Apr 10, 2018 15:18:39   #
moldyoldy
 
oldroy wrote:
Is there any chance that that "soft power" is used when the FBI and the DOJ softwalk all their information to Congressional subpoenas? Aw hell, they don't do things like that, do they? I think there is a chance that a whole bunch of those people need to be "fired" and replaced with people who don't think that the executive branch doesn't have to work with the legislative branch. They had 8 years to get all that kind of thinking deeply entrenched in their thinking and now we are getting to suffer from that kind of thinking. Of course, the DOJ and the FBI don't make the whole branch although they seem to think they do.
Is there any chance that that "soft power&quo... (show quote)


With Nunes walking straight to the white house with every piece of info he gets, it is no wonder the prosecutor will not release all the data.

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Apr 10, 2018 16:48:21   #
bahmer
 
slatten49 wrote:
Just picked up from Yahoo News:

Geoffrey Berman, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is recused from the Michael Cohen investigation, ABC News has learned.

Berman was not involved in the decision to raid Cohen's office because of the recusal, two sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News

The recusal was approved by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

The raid of Cohen's handled by others in the office of the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and approved by a federal judge.

Berman is a Trump appointee with ties to Rudy Giuliani who donated money to the 2016 Trump campaign.

The U.S. Attorney's office declined to comment.
Just picked up from Yahoo News: br br Geoffrey Be... (show quote)


It is starting to smell like a left wing con job to me and this whole special prosecutor smelled from the get go. It is starting to smell like a left wing con job with Rob Rosenstein in charge of painting the dully elected president with the broad brush of the democrat party collusion brush.

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Apr 10, 2018 17:00:39   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
theotts wrote:
A warrant was issued for the seizure of records. That means there was found to be probable cause, and that means the records seized were shown to be material evidence in the investigation of a crime. Discussions of the commission of a crime, or subornation of perjury are NOT privileged conversations.
But then, given the criminal stupidity of the Trumpista, none of their mindless babbling is privileged.
The New American Gestapo doesn't need probable cause, it doesn't even need a crime. This malevolent spectacle is not the investigation of any crimes, this is a slanderous, unconstitutional, anti-American campaign to destroy the presidency of the man that kicked the sorry ass of your knuckle d**gging queen. Truly, you airheads are the biggest cowards and sorest losers the world has ever seen.

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Apr 10, 2018 17:09:24   #
theotts
 
bahmer wrote:
It is starting to smell like a left wing con job to me and this whole special prosecutor smelled from the get go. It is starting to smell like a left wing con job with Rob Rosenstein in charge of painting the dully elected president with the broad brush of the democrat party collusion brush.


That "dully elected" is perfect. Only sensible thing you said.
Being elected is not a sweeping pardon.
When Mueller was appointed, he was praised by several members of congress, including the Nunez clone dimwits on the House (in)Judiciary Committee. He is a lifelong Republican, which means he's pulling his punches. Two class A felony indictments are just the beginning.
Perhaps, if you want to make an exhaustive demonstration of your ignorance, you could explain how the FBI got a warrant from a Bush-appointed judge. And privilege does not cover subornation of perjury (a felony). If a judge signed a warrant, the FBI showed probable cause. No controversial anything here boys. Just more cries of agony from Gomorrah.
I mean really. Can you be so utterly foolish and unhinged?

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