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The so-called morality test for liberals and conservatives, Part V
Mar 15, 2014 02:47:17   #
rumitoid
 
"One of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal."
There is convincing and overwhelming evidence that a clear indication of sociopathic and psychopathic illness begins with hurting defenseless animals when young. Is it one of the worst things a person can do? No. Of course not. Yet it is diagnostic of a severely damaged and dangerous individual.

"I am proud of my country's history."
There is good and bad in the history of every nation. America has committed atrocities and behaved very poorly in the past, still does on occasion. This is not something to be proud of and those that attack people for mentioning such episodes are deeply disturbed and dangerous. What N**is are made of. What I am proud of about America and how it seems exceptional as to terrible mistakes and injustices it committed, is that it admitted, rectified, and sought to compensate for the harm done; no other nation as so consistently practiced this virtue.
Neither nations nor people are perfect. What brings honor to both, and high honor I will add, is in the making of amends and seeking to bring justice to these wrongs.

"It is better to do good than to do bad."
That depends. Many conservatives will tell you it is bad to be a liberal and good to be, well, what he or she is. Same for a liberal. The basic dilemma and impasse and d******eness between liberal and conservative today is found in this question. Both see themselves as doing good and the other as doing bad. As much as we would like to make the question cut and dried, and both sides do try and react as if they have the answer, it is not and never has been so black and white for societies.
Moral absolutes? For me, yes. Even telling a N**i I am not hiding a Jew when I am is a lie. This is not right and needs confession. But it is murder to answer yes. Yet I am not the arbiter of what is right and wrong; going down that road is a path to the worst humanity has to offer. Humility, the only real virtue, demands I submit to principles before safety or life. Do I have a perfect record on this? Yes! Just kidding. Of course not. However, not vacillating or equivocating on those principles and precepts I take as t***h from Christ's teaching, determining I somehow know better or I am an exception, has me eventually take the necessary action to confess, ask forgiveness, and seek to rectify my wrong as best I can.

"Compassion for those who are suffering is the most crucial virtue."
My first reaction was wild agreement. And still is, with this qualifier: look deeply to the nature of their suffering. Some suffer greatly when they do not get their way. Others when they do not get what they want. Still others when others get their way and what they want. A person "suffering" is not always do compassion but maybe a harsh wake up call.

"People should be loyal to their family members, even when they have done something wrong."
Loyal is absolutely the wrong word here. Love, yes; loyal, not necessarily. My sister disliked that I was not automatically on her side in every argument. "What are brothers for?" she once asked after a very heated, er, discussion. "To love the best that is in us both," I responded. (Where that response came from I do not know, for I had never consciously thought about it.) After a moment she said, "You are very irritating," and then a peck on the cheek, "but still lovable."

"I would call some acts wrong on the grounds that they are unnatural."
Wrong, yes; ugly, yes; cruel, yes; stupid, yes: but unnatural? If we do them, is it not in our nature to do them? The Bible suggests that very strongly. Unnatural as to what a person committed to God would do? Sure.

There are a number of words purposely used that are highly charged for a liberal or conservative and woul be usually indicative of either bent...without a pause, some critical analysis, and an intelligent response devoid of certain reactionary components of language. Conformity, loyalty, fairness, justice, patriotism, compassion, team player, duty, authority,

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Mar 15, 2014 09:56:33   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
rumitoid wrote:
"One of the worst things a person could do is hurt a defenseless animal."
There is convincing and overwhelming evidence that a clear indication of sociopathic and psychopathic illness begins with hurting defenseless animals when young. Is it one of the worst things a person can do? No. Of course not. Yet it is diagnostic of a severely damaged and dangerous individual.

"I am proud of my country's history."
There is good and bad in the history of every nation. America has committed atrocities and behaved very poorly in the past, still does on occasion. This is not something to be proud of and those that attack people for mentioning such episodes are deeply disturbed and dangerous. What N**is are made of. What I am proud of about America and how it seems exceptional as to terrible mistakes and injustices it committed, is that it admitted, rectified, and sought to compensate for the harm done; no other nation as so consistently practiced this virtue.
Neither nations nor people are perfect. What brings honor to both, and high honor I will add, is in the making of amends and seeking to bring justice to these wrongs.

"It is better to do good than to do bad."
That depends. Many conservatives will tell you it is bad to be a liberal and good to be, well, what he or she is. Same for a liberal. The basic dilemma and impasse and d******eness between liberal and conservative today is found in this question. Both see themselves as doing good and the other as doing bad. As much as we would like to make the question cut and dried, and both sides do try and react as if they have the answer, it is not and never has been so black and white for societies.
Moral absolutes? For me, yes. Even telling a N**i I am not hiding a Jew when I am is a lie. This is not right and needs confession. But it is murder to answer yes. Yet I am not the arbiter of what is right and wrong; going down that road is a path to the worst humanity has to offer. Humility, the only real virtue, demands I submit to principles before safety or life. Do I have a perfect record on this? Yes! Just kidding. Of course not. However, not vacillating or equivocating on those principles and precepts I take as t***h from Christ's teaching, determining I somehow know better or I am an exception, has me eventually take the necessary action to confess, ask forgiveness, and seek to rectify my wrong as best I can.

"Compassion for those who are suffering is the most crucial virtue."
My first reaction was wild agreement. And still is, with this qualifier: look deeply to the nature of their suffering. Some suffer greatly when they do not get their way. Others when they do not get what they want. Still others when others get their way and what they want. A person "suffering" is not always do compassion but maybe a harsh wake up call.

"People should be loyal to their family members, even when they have done something wrong."
Loyal is absolutely the wrong word here. Love, yes; loyal, not necessarily. My sister disliked that I was not automatically on her side in every argument. "What are brothers for?" she once asked after a very heated, er, discussion. "To love the best that is in us both," I responded. (Where that response came from I do not know, for I had never consciously thought about it.) After a moment she said, "You are very irritating," and then a peck on the cheek, "but still lovable."

"I would call some acts wrong on the grounds that they are unnatural."
Wrong, yes; ugly, yes; cruel, yes; stupid, yes: but unnatural? If we do them, is it not in our nature to do them? The Bible suggests that very strongly. Unnatural as to what a person committed to God would do? Sure.

There are a number of words purposely used that are highly charged for a liberal or conservative and woul be usually indicative of either bent...without a pause, some critical analysis, and an intelligent response devoid of certain reactionary components of language. Conformity, loyalty, fairness, justice, patriotism, compassion, team player, duty, authority,
"One of the worst things a person could do is... (show quote)

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I don't have a problem with anything you wrote on this topic, and I agree with everything. What I would add is that while it is true that America's GOVERNMENT has done some bad things, and individuals have done some bad things, it is also true that the American people as a whole have made a great nation, but some will imply that America's sins outweigh her greatness and goodness, and that is patently unfair to the nation as a whole. I dislike "but" in response to praise of America. Yes, the buts are real - we all know that, and hence to d**g down compliments is nothing more than mean spirited in my view. We need some happiness not constant moroseness and whining.

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