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Aug 18, 2017 18:35:49   #
alabuck wrote:

When was your last original thought?

When has anyone on this forum EVER had an original thought?

alabuck wrote:

How much time have you wasted listening to and repeating the Jim Quinn's of the world?

Are you done with the rhetorical questions yet?

alabuck wrote:

Any serious student of the Civil War has access to factual history as to the cause of the Civil War. Just read the state Constitutions of the seceding states. Read the Constitution of the CSA, itself. You'll see where slavery is named in each one as a reason for secession.

That doesn't mean it wasn't a divisive issue.

alabuck wrote:

Part of the "States' Rights" argument regarding reason(s) for the CIvil War was that a state had the "right" to secede from the Union. Your argument, favoring secession was declared 'null and void' by the outcome of the Civil War. That you would still want to maintain that false concept only shows your ignorance of Constitutional history and theory.

Here's what I said in a previous post about California secession.

As it stands, federal law actually prohibits any state from leaving the Union (which sounds a little draconian to me), so as much as we want to secede we know it's going to be a long process and this initiative is only a step in that direction.

So, you want to tell me again, how ignorant I am about constitutional history and theory? (BTW, "constitutional" is an adjective, you don't capitalize it).

...Maybe you should just present the facts as you know them, instead of being arrogant and telling people what you think they know or don't know.

alabuck wrote:

If a Civil War was fought to keep the UNion in tact in 1861, why would you not think another civil war wouldn't be fought to maintain the Union, today?

Because 2017 isn't 1861 alabuck. A lot can change in 156 years... For instance, in the mid-19th century there was still a lot of territory in the west that had yet to be conquered and assimilated and expansionists in both the North and the South were in direct competition for that territory. Deciding if a territory is to be admitted as a slave state or a "free" state, made a big difference on the kind of business that can succeed there. That competition doesn't exist anymore.

I'm not saying an attempt to secede wouldn't lead to a war. But I'm willing to find out how far the effort can go before it gets to that... *IF* it ever does.

alabuck wrote:

As to economics and territorial competition being the actual causes of the Civil War, as I stated earlier, slavery was an integral part of both of your arguments. Without slavery in either equation, there wouldn't have been any economic or territorial competition.

Well... I don't have quite the imagination to envision a world without economic or territorial competition but yes, I agree that slavery was an integral part to both arguments. But this perspective should tell you that slavery was only a factor in the economic and territorial dispute. Granted, the issue did play a more critical role than just the "attention getter" that I was portraying it as but nevertheless, I think it *was* a divisive issue and as I had said in my opening statement... "I've always believed the conflict was more about economic and territorial competition between states than slavery."
Aug 18, 2017 09:15:23   #
Big Bass wrote:
You wouldn't understand it, anyway.

I think I understand enough.
Aug 18, 2017 09:13:54   #
kankune wrote:
I'll take that olive branch. Great post. : )

Thank you kankune :)
Aug 18, 2017 09:05:53   #
Big Bass wrote:
He made himself abundantly clear. His lucidity was eminently visible to a normal human being. You, on the other hand, have a very serious problem.

Wow... really!?

I'm soooo crushed by your... opinion.

Aug 18, 2017 09:03:57   #
Steve700 wrote:
Obama started all this shit, making race relations get continuously considerably worse ever since he took office. He was presented to us as someone who would unite the country and in fact the whole world with us. You know, make us loved and respected again.

He did... you and your alt-right minority were the only ones who hated him... Everyone else liked him and respect for America was on a rebound... until clown came along... Now the world is laughing their asses off.

Steve700 wrote:

Of course it's Obama's fault.He's been the most divisive president we've ever had, and in fact, Andrew Breitbart was murdered within an hour after stating he had videos of Obama from his college days that show why racial division and strife was central to what hope & change was all about. Obama sided with the criminals and radicals rather than the police, and gave plenty of signals (and so did his communist Atty. Gen. Eric Holder) that there would be no prosecution of violent communist agitators. So when Democrats start going crazy and violent trying to foment a communist revolution, do you expect that we are not going to react to that deliberate tearing down of America. You people are fucked up in the head but good
br Of course it's Obama's fault.He's been the mos... (show quote)

LOL... more baseless conspiracies... It's soooo obvious. You people are just bigots. Why can't you just admit it? It's so obvious when people on your side can't even come back with an argument... all they can do is say "nah-huh - the liberals did it"... I mean seriously, that's all you got. Last few responses to my post were just a lot of loose generalizations and the only "evidence" you morons have are conspiracy theories. It really does make you look stupid. Why not just come out and say you want a White America? At this point, wouldn't you rather be seen as an honest asshole than a lying fool?
Aug 18, 2017 08:52:20   #
2tap wrote:
What the hell are you talking about breaking a few windows? Im sorry but are you STUPID? A few windows my ass. Complete communities have been destroyed. Ferguson coem to mind? That was all about a fricken lie!!!!! Hands up dont shoot was pure bullshit!!!! Even the justice department under obama and lynch stated the same. Then the fricken Democrats in congress all get fricken panties in a knot and start wearing hoodies and their hands up KNOWING FULL WELL IT WAS ALL A LIE! So lets call a spade a spade ok. It wasnt a few damn windows that were broke. As a direct result of that one single lie, numerous police officers wer assainated, communities and private property were destroyed, many people were beaten because of this fucking lie. So dont even go there, ASSHAT! You seriously have nothing of value to offer this site other than near sighted, uncaring, abvious lack of intilectual abilities and honesty. Go take your BALCK LIES MATTER and ANTIFA loving crap elsewhere ok? Perhaps Im just getting some steam off, but when those like you that decise to try an alter the conversation from truth it totaly burns my fricken ass!!! Grow the hell up if your still able.

What the hell are you talking about breaking a few... (show quote)

temper, temper... too bad you can't do anything about it, seeing that you can't even spell and you have your head up your ass.
Aug 17, 2017 17:45:57   #
2tap wrote:
Hi all. I came across this earlier while watching a video Martin Brodel on YouTube. I never heard of JIm Quinn before but I can assure Im glad I did. I wish I could write with clasiry and aplomb like he hs shown here. It Pertains to the recent riots in Charlotte NC. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did.

Semper Fi

Jim Quinn Rages At "Functional Illiterates Trying To Erase History"

Authored by Jim Quinn via The Burning Platform blog,

“True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them the desire to do right is precisely the same.” ? Robert E. Lee

Image result for toppled statue durham nc

I consider myself a student of history. I’ve always been fascinated by the personalities who drove events throughout history. I probably would have been a history major in college if I didn’t feel the need to make enough money to support myself and my family. I chose a business major and decided studying history would be my hobby. Over the years I’ve taken a particular interest in the Civil War. You could even call me a Civil War buff.

I’ve probably read 60 books on the Civil War, from Bruce Catton, Shelby Foote and numerous other historians. I’ve visited the Gettysburg battlefield a half dozen times, as it is only 150 miles from my home. My basement office is decorated with six prints depicting various scenes from the Civil War. One depicts Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson at Fredericksburg, another depicts Jackson leading his troops through Richmond, another depicts Grant taking command of Union forces, another shows Chamberlain leading the charge down Little Round Top, another portrays Lee and Longstreet making the fateful decision to send Pickett’s men on their futile charge into history, and the last showing the slaughter during Pickett’s charge.

I’ve even taken an executive education course in leadership where the final day is a trip to Gettysburg where a park ranger guides you through the three day battle and the professor asks you to assess the leadership shown by officers on both sides during that tide turning battle. My fascination with the Civil War isn’t based on rooting for one side or the other. I wanted to understand the motivations of the main characters and understand why and how they fought that bloody war. There were so many fateful decisions, errors of judgement, acts of courage, acts of cowardice, brilliantly bold maneuvers, and just plain good and bad luck.

Robert E. Lee, before the outbreak of the war, was overwhelmingly regarded as the finest military mind in the U.S. army. Winfield Scott offered him command of all Union forces at the outbreak of hostilities. But he chose allegiance to his state of Virginia, rather than the Federal government. He didn’t fight for slavery. He freed his slaves. He was fighting for states’ rights. He was an honorable God fearing noble man. Stonewall Jackson was an extremely religious man who waged war with a passion, but also taught Sunday School to slaves. Lee and Jackson must be viewed in the context of the 19th century rather than being judged by the standards of the 21st century.

The vast majority of Confederate soldiers who did the fighting and dying during that war didn’t own slaves. They weren’t fighting to maintain slavery. They were fighting because a foreign army had invaded their land. In 1860 this nation was more an amalgamation of states than a centralized government. States still had a tremendous amount of power and leeway to run their states the way they chose. The ever increasing power of a central authority occurred during and after the Civil War. The South were not the bad guys. Their leaders, generals and soldiers were not evil. They were Americans.

The revisionist history now being peddled by the left wing media and their non-thinking acolytes lacks a factual basis, historical context and a true understanding of history. The Civil War was the climax of decades of tension between the North and the South over states’ rights, economic policies, slavery, and a myriad of other complex issues. Examined within the context of generational theory, it was a Fourth Turning that was unavoidable. It was a crucial important event in U.S. history. It wasn’t the shameful episode portrayed by the brain dead faux journalists babbling on CNN and MSNBC.

Illegally pulling down statues of Confederate soldiers and taking videos of “brave” unemployed liberal arts major social justice warriors kicking the Confederate soldier is what passes for activism in today’s warped society. Liberal mayors and city councils across the south are falling all over themselves wasting time and taxpayer money to remove statues of Confederate generals to appease the left and make a display of how anti-racist they can be. Meanwhile, their cities are bankrupt, their infrastructure is decaying, black crime is rampant and their education systems matriculate functionally illiterate deranged snowflakes into society.

Image result for toppled statue durham ncImage result for toppled statue durham nc

These courageous left wing politicians, like the mayor of New Orleans, have statues removed in the middle of the night to avoid protests by those who understand you cannot erase history by removing statues and names. In a hysterical development, Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh on Monday said in a statement she intended to move forward in removing several city statutes, including those of Lee and Stonewall Jackson. I suppose the soaring murder rate, blacks rioting and burning down neighborhoods, crumbling infrastructure, failing schools, and white flight is due to a few Confederate statues. It’s good to see this diverse mayor has her priorities in order.

The ignorance and disregard for history knows no bounds for generations taught to feel rather think in our government run indoctrination centers known as public schools. The left wing media reinforces their ignorance with misinformation, fake news and government sanctioned propaganda. Snowflakes across the land melt at anything they are instructed to find offensive. Everything and everyone who doesn’t agree with their half baked views are declared racists.

Pointing out that leftist antifa thugs, without permits to protest, initiated the violence in Charlottesville is racist. The uproar against Trump’s truthful assessment of the situation by CNN, MSNBC and Fox proves there isn’t a wit of difference among these corporate media outlets. True colors are revealed. The ongoing coup attempt against Trump continues unabated.

Trump’s impromptu press conference and his push back of this false narrative was a thing of beauty. The hypocrisy of the left and their utter contempt for facts must be thrown back in their faces at every opportunity. Across the country, 718 Confederate monuments and statues remain, with nearly 300 of them in Georgia, Virginia or North Carolina. There are also 109 public schools named for Robert E. Lee, Confederate President Jefferson Davis or other icons of the Civil War-era South. Will the left be satisfied when all 718 monuments are destroyed and all 109 schools are renamed Oprah Winfrey Middle School? No. They will find something else to be offended about, and violently attack again.

The funniest part about watching these social justice warriors wail and gnash their teeth about the racism of these monuments is knowing these unemployed functional illiterates couldn’t tell you when the Civil War occurred, name two major battles, name five generals, provide a death count within 250,000, or fill in the blank in the phrase Surrender at __________. They don’t know jack shit about history, the Civil War, Lincoln’s true feelings about blacks, or the fact the Democratic Party is the party which suppressed blacks for one hundred years following the Civil War. Only truly ignorant snowflakes think they can erase history by protesting it and trying to destroy monuments to those who fought and died for a cause they believed in.

Do these left wing zealots have any sense of awareness? Maybe they were too busy studying for their gender studies finals to see the reports of the Taliban destroying ancient Buddhist monuments in territory they had captured. Zealots, terrorists, and extremists attempt to destroy symbols that offend them as a way to prove their strength and power. In reality, they destroy what others have built in a feckless effort to boost their self-esteem. Intellectual lightweights attempt to bring others down because they realize their lack of intelligence and inability to get ahead in life has to be blamed on someone else.

Image result for taliban blowing up buddhist statues

If these social justice warrior weaklings were transported back in time 154 years to the Gettysburg battlefield where real men displayed real courage and bravery, they would be covered in their own urine cowering behind a tree as Pickett’s charge commenced. Could you imagine any of the Soros paid professional antifa protestors charging across an open field towards certain death? Those pussies would be high tailing it south as fast as their fashion designer sneakers would take them.

Trump was absolutely correct in asking, “Where does it end?” Washington owned slaves. Do we get rid of all dollar bills and quarters? Do we change the name of our capital? Do we change the name of Washington & Lee University to Obama & Spike Lee University? Do we blow up the Washington Memorial? Jefferson owned slaves. Do we get rid of nickles? How about the Jefferson Memorial?

Why stop only in our country? The Egyptian pyramids were built by slaves. Should we tear those down? If these are symbols of hatred and racism that must be destroyed, why do we never hear calls from the left for the destruction of the Nazi death camps. Talk about symbols of hate. Why would we want to remember the holocaust? It couldn’t be that it doesn’t fit the left’s narrative.

This Confederate monument narrative is designed by the left to provoke a backlash from whites who are tired of being scorned, ridiculed, belittled and called racists, rednecks and deplorables by so called open minded progressives. It’s working. The cold race war is beginning to turn hot. The president has no intention of trying to bring the two sides together because it’s impossible at this point. That’s how Fourth Turnings roll. The mood of the country will continue to darken. Reactions to these types of events will intensify. More blood will be shed. It’s too bad these functional illiterates didn’t pay attention in history class or ever read a book. They are going to learn some harsh lessons over the next decade.

“We’re doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That’s what it is to be alive. It’s pretty dense kids who haven’t figured that out by the time they’re ten.” ? Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Hi all. I came across this earlier while watching... (show quote)

I agree with most of what Quinn is saying about the history of the Civil War. I've always believed the conflict was more about economic and territorial competition between states than slavery. I think the issue of slavery was just the attention getter (probably more now than it was then). This is pretty common stuff, just like religion is often used for political ambitions that need popular support like what we see in the Middle East today.

Of course the "functional illiterates" on all sides pick and choose which fallacies they want to believe, usually choosing the perspective most damaging to their political opponents. So for conservatives, the jihad is all about Islam and for liberals the Civil War was all about slavery. It's basically the same thing... a dismissal of the real issues leading to conflict for the purpose of swaying public opinions in one political direction or another.

Setting the slavery hype aside, I am far more aligned with the stance taken by the South, but then again, I *am* a Jeffersonian anti-Federalist at heart. Some of you know me as an advocate of secession (at least for California). A lot of liberals (especially those with a Libertarian spin) agree with me and it's too bad they can't see the parallel's with what the South was going through when THEY wanted to secede. I think it's a shame that the historical significance of the CSA is being buried in political misinformation because we have reached the point where the federal government has centralized too much power and it would be a great benefit to people if they could draw references and lessons from the Confederacy.

As for the misconceptions about the Civil War being all about slavery, I have to say that although it suits the anti-right narrative on the left, the blame really goes to racists on the right for being belligerent racists AND adopting the Confederacy as their icon. The Confederacy might not have been about racism in 1860, but the "alt-right" is MAKING it about racism today and THAT is what the angry left is responding to.

I guess that's the part that self-proclaimed expert Jim Quinn can't figure out... or is preferring not to because THAT would validate the left and he sure as shit doesn't want that! ;)
Aug 16, 2017 23:44:21   #
Big Bass wrote:
Did you reopen your post in my response?


Big Bass wrote:

My point is that it is wrong to make snap decisions before all the facts are known.

Yeah, I got your point... Trump was acting responsibly and Obama acted impulsively. Yes, I *did* get that. Did you get my point about putting all that aside?

Big Bass wrote:

Trump should have said this in the beginning of this event, and promised a full official statement when he was in possession of the facts. Going off half-cocked usually ends in trouble.

I agree, it's a bad idea to go off half-cocked. 'Gotta get the facts.

An admitted racist goes to a rally, described by the organizers as a "promotion of white advocacy", and drives his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing one and injuring 19 others. The incident was witnessed by hundreds in broad day light. No one else was in the car with him. He was arrested on the spot.

What facts are we missing here BB?

The police tested him for substances right away and they had his racist online profiles within hours. What other information could the president possibly need before calling the duck a duck.

I'm not confusing the surrounding tensions at the protest with the actual crime committed there. The protesters didn't do anything wrong... on either side... with one exception... that one Trump supporting, racist protester who decided to kill people.

You think Trump would patiently wait for more evidence if the son-of-a-bitch was a Muslim? It's got nothing to do with "facts". Trump needs his racist base. Without them he wouldn't have won the election. He hasn't made any effort to win over the hearts and minds of anyone else... All he has is the small but fanatic base that he has now and ANY consolation to the rest of the nation would be an insult to that base.

So... don't give me that shit about waiting for facts. I'm not 6 years old BB... please try to give some thought to what you're saying.

Big Bass wrote:

Good luck in your quest. But do keep aware of everything.

I'll try... not sure what you think my "quest" is... but I always try to keep aware of things ;)
Aug 16, 2017 12:37:06   #
kankune wrote:
Yes....I have a major problem with the Don of a cartel trying to run for president of this country. As for your post....its gobildy gook. There's a ton of voter fraud and we all know it. Could be on both sides, but the majority is on the Dem side. Just sayin

Once again... there is no proof. You can suspect all you want but there is no proof. Trust me if there was, it would be all over main stream media not just right-wing conspiracy sites.

I will say there's been a lot of evidence that people have tried to influence the elections... For instance the Russians (although there is no actual proof that their efforts were successful) and Kris Kobach and his cross-check system that many states have refused to comply with because of evidence that the system is designed to minimize minority votes, or the countless times Republicans have been caught gerrymandering. Maybe you're confusing the efforts for the accomplishments.

Yes, it's possible that illegal voters were counted, it's also possible (and far more likely) that legal votes were not counted. But at this point, we do not have proof that either of these things have happened. The only proof we have is that 2016 saw the lowest voter turnout in a very long time and that it *IS* possible for the least popular candidate to win the election through the electoral college.
Aug 16, 2017 12:22:17   #
Big Bass wrote:
Mine, too! This country is worth it. ( I screwed up my comments. Open the full statement by straightUp. My comment is the 3rd paragraph.)

No offense Bass, but that doesn't look much like an olive branch... My whole point was to take the high road and FORGET what the "other side" is guilty of. I could fill pages with counter-arguments to your statement Bass, but for now, I'm trying to rise above that, if even for a fleeting moment.
Aug 16, 2017 09:36:56   #
At some point earlier in the discussion, I explained why people were upset at Trump's initial response to the slaughter at Charlottesvile. Although I think my explanation still stands, I just wanted to share that I've changed my personal position on his reaction since watching some coverage on Fox News. (I know... I've often called Fox News, fake news but sometimes I like to view their perspective on Trump, on the chance they have a point that more left-leaning media won't consider.)

In this case, I just decided to take a higher road. I KNOW that people are upset about Trump's apparent alignment with White Nationalists and I'm not going to dispute that, but when he said the violence needs to stop "on all sides"... maybe we should just accept that at face value. Worry less about the past and who did what and about Trump's history or even if he "really means it". Everything else aside, it's a good statement. They say it takes two to make a fight... so maybe calling for peace on all sides is the best approach after all.

So there's my olive branch.
Aug 16, 2017 09:20:18   #
Steve700 wrote:
No, if you are listening to sports radio. I am listening to political talk radio. No wonder I am 20 times more politically aware and a astute than you. And most of the rest of the time I am involved in learning more from the Internet and trying to educate you crackpots and save you from your selves.

Some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time Steve. I know that must be a mind blowing concept to someone like you being so fixated on political misinformation. Also if you think listening to right-wing radio (because there is no political moderation on the radio and I KNOW you aren't listening to NPR) then you are more likely 20 times more ignorant than I am, which might explain why I have systematically destroyed every idiot claim you've made. Right-wing radio is where fake news originated.

I read Steve... It's just not something I do when I'm driving. But I read papers and journals from all sides... from conservative Wall Street to liberal New York Times and I've been studying politics and economics since college... about 30 years. This is why it's so easy for me to see the fallacies in your arguments, even when you can't see them yourself because of your blind rush to propagate whatever your channels are lying about.
Aug 15, 2017 23:32:37   #
kankune wrote:
Oh my friend, please don't be so naive about voter fraud. Do you actually believe the dems are voted back into power in their states that are drowning in debt, filled with murder and mayhem legally??

Here's what you need to understand... In the more liberal regions (which is to the point of being synonymous with urban regions) the people most affected by the "murder and mayhem" are those at the bottom 10%. The rest of us drive overhead without even noticing as we listen to sports radio on the way home from work. And the debt fixation makes for great drama but any economist will tell you... debt is only half the story.

The point (I almost forgot) is that this 10% that suffer the most... They don't care about politics. They don't vote. They don't register. They don't count. They're busy trying to find food, or a place to urinate, or a place that's safe. You focus on the worst possible examples as if they represent the centerpiece of our political culture. That's a false impression my friend.

The reason why Democrats continue to win elections in these places is because of the largest demographic, the middle class people who commute between the office and home. They merge with a lot of culture and learn how to deal with population density. These are variables of mind-blowing proportions, kankune. Small town politics simply cannot solve big city problems and big business fast talkers can't so easily fool city slickers. So... that pretty much rules out the Republicans.

Or if you like, think about this... if the Democrats ARE diabolical pre-communists... would it be so unbelievable that they could just brain wash the voters?

However way you prefer to look at this... circumstantial or sentimental, the bottom line is no evidence has been found to support the claim that ANYONE voted illegally. That's all I'm saying.

kankune wrote:

It worked with Obama's 2nd term. We got smarter and it didn't work in the race between Clinton and Trump. She got smacked into the gutter where she belongs.

OK, so you have a problem with Hilary.
Aug 15, 2017 09:58:43   #
kankune wrote:
I think you fight too hard against voter fraud if there isn't any...

I'd be doing the same thing if someone told me the moon was made of cheese. It wouldn't be a resistance to the possibility, it would be the fun of picking apart their arguments. ;)
Aug 15, 2017 09:53:41   #
Sicilianthing wrote:

You're wrong about the Laws that ban Muslims... they exist... I will create a New Topic on them yet Again.

Give me some time and look for it today Aug 15th, 2017

sure thing... take your time.
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