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Trump's Attacks on the Working Class 2 - The Tax Cuts
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May 25, 2018 08:34:33   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
straightUp wrote:
"basis"

Also, your focus on "the company" betrays your failure to understand the point being made in the original post which applies to the nation-wide economy, not just one company. Don't feel too bad, your friends didn't do any better.


I don’t feel bad at all ... You look to spin the facts to justify your disdain of President Trump... I get that .....

The tax cuts are in place now for this year not what happened last year.. Harley has been having negative sales for a few years now..

As you pointed out the “nation wide economy” is better now than the last 10 years...
Real gross domestic product (GDP) increased at an annual rate of 2.3 percent in the first quarter of 2018 (table 1), according to the "advance" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. ... Current-dollar GDP increased 4.3 percent, or $211.2 billion, in the first quarter to a level of $19.97 trillion.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Next report coming out May 30th suggested it will be over 3% again.. How nice that will be...

Another for your consideration...

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/

Did you by chance get your article from FB????If so don’t feel bad~~ a lot of people gleaned it a negative for Trump ..You weren’t alone..
And finally from Snopes, which I put no stock in

This Facebook post is largely based on a 9 March 2018 MSNBC segment that featured reporter Garrett Haake speaking with employees at a Harley Davidson plant in Kansas City, Missouri. Some viewers, including the above Facebook poster, may have been confused by the segment, as it did not clearly state that Harley-Davidson first announced that this plant would be closing in January 2018 — more than a month before Trump made his tariff decision.

It is true that some American companies have expressed concern about how new tariffs may affect their business going forward. It is also true that Harley-Davidson will soon be closing a plant in Kansas City, Missouri.

However, these items are not directly related. In fact, Harley has planned on consolidating production at the Kansas City plant since 2015, before Trump was even in office; when the company made the announcement, it said that it was due to slowing motorcycle sales:

Harley-Davidson’s sales fell sharply in 2017 and the company will move ahead with a plan to consolidate manufacturing operations, including the closure of its Kansas City, Mo. plant.

The world’s largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles has struggled to reverse a four-year sales slide, with growth overseas somewhat helping offset a decline in the U.S. bike market.
Additionally, Harley-Davidson announced in 2017 that it would be opening a manufacturing plant in Thailand. However, Harley said at the time that the decision was made to better serve the burgeoning market in southeast Asia, and that the decision would not affect manufacturing in the United States:

The Thailand facility “will allow us to be more responsive and competitive in the ASEAN region and China,” Harley-Davidson public relations manager Katie Whitmore said.

“Increased access and affordability for our customers in the region is key to growth for the company in total,” she said. “There is no intent to reduce H-D U.S. manufacturing due to this expansion.”

The plant would let Milwaukee-based Harley-Davidson avoid Thailand’s up to 60 percent tariff on imported motorcycles and help it get tax breaks when exporting to Thailand’s neighbors, thanks to a trade arrangement among members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nation (ASEAN).

Harley opened a plant in India in 2011. It also assembles motorcycles at a plant in Brazil.
<snip> more to read if you wish...

Reply
May 25, 2018 09:09:07   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Likewise should we look at new business growth?? Fair iis fair right??

Unemployment is the lowest its been since 2000.. Now I don’t care who got the numbers up its an excellent sign of things changing.. Last I saw it was 3.9% in April.. Damn good!!

7 Companies That Have Reinvested in America Following Trump’s Election

https://www.gobankingrates.com/making-money/business/companies-reinvested-america-following-trumps-election/amp/

Then we have export/import if you can get through all the Bo hype these rag time fact checkers like to use to twist it up~~This one politico, another I really take no stock in ether..

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/03/us-trade-deficit-trump-september-2017-244509

Reply
May 25, 2018 09:19:01   #
buffalo Loc: Texas
 
lindajoy wrote:
I don’t feel bad at all ... You look to spin the facts to justify your disdain of President Trump... I get that .....

The tax cuts are in place now for this year not what happened last year.. Harley has been having negative sales for a few years now..

As you pointed out the “nation wide economy” is better now than the last 10 years...
Real gross domestic product (GDP) increased at an annual rate of 2.3 percent in the first quarter of 2018 (table 1), according to the "advance" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. ... Current-dollar GDP increased 4.3 percent, or $211.2 billion, in the first quarter to a level of $19.97 trillion.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Next report coming out May 30th suggested it will be over 3% again.. How nice that will be...

Another for your consideration...

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/

Did you by chance get your article from FB????If so don’t feel bad~~ a lot of people gleaned it a negative for Trump ..You weren’t alone..
And finally from Snopes, which I put no stock in

This Facebook post is largely based on a 9 March 2018 MSNBC segment that featured reporter Garrett Haake speaking with employees at a Harley Davidson plant in Kansas City, Missouri. Some viewers, including the above Facebook poster, may have been confused by the segment, as it did not clearly state that Harley-Davidson first announced that this plant would be closing in January 2018 — more than a month before Trump made his tariff decision.

It is true that some American companies have expressed concern about how new tariffs may affect their business going forward. It is also true that Harley-Davidson will soon be closing a plant in Kansas City, Missouri.

However, these items are not directly related. In fact, Harley has planned on consolidating production at the Kansas City plant since 2015, before Trump was even in office; when the company made the announcement, it said that it was due to slowing motorcycle sales:

Harley-Davidson’s sales fell sharply in 2017 and the company will move ahead with a plan to consolidate manufacturing operations, including the closure of its Kansas City, Mo. plant.

The world’s largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles has struggled to reverse a four-year sales slide, with growth overseas somewhat helping offset a decline in the U.S. bike market.
Additionally, Harley-Davidson announced in 2017 that it would be opening a manufacturing plant in Thailand. However, Harley said at the time that the decision was made to better serve the burgeoning market in southeast Asia, and that the decision would not affect manufacturing in the United States:

The Thailand facility “will allow us to be more responsive and competitive in the ASEAN region and China,” Harley-Davidson public relations manager Katie Whitmore said.

“Increased access and affordability for our customers in the region is key to growth for the company in total,” she said. “There is no intent to reduce H-D U.S. manufacturing due to this expansion.”

The plant would let Milwaukee-based Harley-Davidson avoid Thailand’s up to 60 percent tariff on imported motorcycles and help it get tax breaks when exporting to Thailand’s neighbors, thanks to a trade arrangement among members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nation (ASEAN).

Harley opened a plant in India in 2011. It also assembles motorcycles at a plant in Brazil.
<snip> more to read if you wish...
I don’t feel bad at all ... You look to spin the f... (show quote)


Fact, lindajoy. It is NEVER a bad year to be rich. The top 10th of income earners saw their net worth increase 40% between 2013 and 2016 and that was obammy's bad economic recovery. The stock market and real estate went up so much that they cannot spend all that money. After-tax corporate profits set new records in 2017, reaching $1.86 trillion in the third quarter. http://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CP

Did the wealthy and corporations that were making record profits really need a tax cut?

Only about half of Americans participate in an employer-sponsored retirement fund, according to the Pew Charitable Trusts, and a much smaller 18.7% of Americans own stock directly. In both cases, market participation is skewed toward those with higher incomes, which means that the wealthy disproportionately benefit from Wall Street's boom because the richest 10% of Americans own 84% of ALL stocks.

"Who is benefitting from the law’s corporate tax cuts today? At present, primarily shareholders. There is no indication of an increase in the wage rate of anything like one percent, but corporations are already paying lower taxes on their profits.

Who will benefit from the corporate tax cuts in the longer run? It will be years before the research starts to come in, so the best estimates of the long-run impact of the legislation are still informed primarily by the research that was available prior to enactment of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

That research suggests that only a small portion of these corporate tax cuts will be shifted to workers. Moreover, most of the worker gains will accrue to more highly paid workers."

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/384147-paltry-wage-gains-rising-deficits-two-key-tax-reform-concerns

"By draining federal revenue, the tax bill will increase deficits by an estimated $1.5 trillion over 10 years. Congressional Republicans have been loath to discuss how they plan on paying for these massive giveaways. But the president’s budget, released today, reveals how the Trump administration proposes to pay for the tax cuts—and the picture is not pretty.

Trump’s budget would cut $675 billion from federal health care spending over 10 years by repealing the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and eviscerating the traditional Medicaid program, leaving millions fewer with health coverage. It would decimate education funding, making the most significant cuts in 30 years. It would cut programs that millions of Americans depend on to find a good job, keep a roof over their head, or put food on the table. It would also slash Social Security and other programs for people with disabilities. And it would severely cut public investments that are necessary for broad-based economic growth and a strong middle class. And as new polling by the Center for American Progress shows, this Robin-Hood-in-reverse agenda is the opposite of what the American people want."

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2018/02/12/446453/trumps-budget-reveals-wants-everyday-americans-pay-tax-cuts-wealthy/

Reply
 
 
May 25, 2018 09:47:25   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
buffalo wrote:
Fact, lindajoy. It is NEVER a bad year to be rich. The top 10th of income earners saw their net worth increase 40% between 2013 and 2016 and that was obammy's bad economic recovery. The stock market and real estate went up so much that they cannot spend all that money. After-tax corporate profits set new records in 2017, reaching $1.86 trillion in the third quarter. http://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CP

Did the wealthy and corporations that were making record profits really need a tax cut?

Only about half of Americans participate in an employer-sponsored retirement fund, according to the Pew Charitable Trusts, and a much smaller 18.7% of Americans own stock directly. In both cases, market participation is skewed toward those with higher incomes, which means that the wealthy disproportionately benefit from Wall Street's boom because the richest 10% of Americans own 84% of ALL stocks.

"Who is benefitting from the law’s corporate tax cuts today? At present, primarily shareholders. There is no indication of an increase in the wage rate of anything like one percent, but corporations are already paying lower taxes on their profits.

Who will benefit from the corporate tax cuts in the longer run? It will be years before the research starts to come in, so the best estimates of the long-run impact of the legislation are still informed primarily by the research that was available prior to enactment of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

That research suggests that only a small portion of these corporate tax cuts will be shifted to workers. Moreover, most of the worker gains will accrue to more highly paid workers."

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/384147-paltry-wage-gains-rising-deficits-two-key-tax-reform-concerns

"By draining federal revenue, the tax bill will increase deficits by an estimated $1.5 trillion over 10 years. Congressional Republicans have been loath to discuss how they plan on paying for these massive giveaways. But the president’s budget, released today, reveals how the Trump administration proposes to pay for the tax cuts—and the picture is not pretty.

Trump’s budget would cut $675 billion from federal health care spending over 10 years by repealing the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and eviscerating the traditional Medicaid program, leaving millions fewer with health coverage. It would decimate education funding, making the most significant cuts in 30 years. It would cut programs that millions of Americans depend on to find a good job, keep a roof over their head, or put food on the table. It would also slash Social Security and other programs for people with disabilities. And it would severely cut public investments that are necessary for broad-based economic growth and a strong middle class. And as new polling by the Center for American Progress shows, this Robin-Hood-in-reverse agenda is the opposite of what the American people want."

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2018/02/12/446453/trumps-budget-reveals-wants-everyday-americans-pay-tax-cuts-wealthy/
Fact, lindajoy. It is NEVER a bad year to be rich... (show quote)


Good Morning,buffalo...
Always enjoy your informative posts..

I have no doubt the rich are going to reap more in the long run.. To say they will not is a lie..
But I also like the measures taken for the middle class and do believe it will be better than the lying media slant on everything Trump does or doesn't do...

The rich who run this country anyway will spend/invest more into our country as well..They are really the ones that “ keep us a float”..,

I would have preferred a flat tax or even something along the lines of Cain’s 999 presentstion..

The tax cut’s stated goal is to boost the economy, leading to higher incomes and better job opportunities for millions of American workers.... A better business climate is the reason cited by two moderate GOP senators who had initially wavered in support for the tax cut, Bob Corker of Tennessee( who seems to already being much better in tsxes as I recently read) and Susan Collins of Maine??? (Not sure) when they announced their ultimate decisions to support the bill..Also The Tax Foundation, a right-leaning think tank,( putting that out to you) said it believes the bill will create 339,000 more jobs and boost GDP growth to by 0.29 percentage points a year, to 2.13% from 1.84% over the next decade.

Right now what we have is sheer speculation .. We’ll just have to see what takes place... My accountant seems to believe given where I fall in income it may do well for me and I’m not rich by any means.. I’m in that middle income bracket.

Reply
May 25, 2018 10:04:57   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
In context of the last year it matters. Medium income is up 3%, which is huge.

We grew accustomed to wages falling while inflation grew, this is a great change.

Still I believe we as a nation are in big trouble. Consider if you will that every decision Trump made and makes were walk on water perfect. It dose not effect the now two hundred trillion dollar unfunded liabilities or some of the world's largest economy's departing the Petro dollar T-bills, for China's Verdon of Americas Federal reserve. Or the fact Americas economy is intertwined in the global economy and nations are hanging by a thread. Then there is the super bubbles far, far greater than 08/09. My point is our economy is better than it has been in decades, but it's a surface current fighting decades of corrupt government, our congress and the senate, among other players and regardless what decisions Trump makes or any other president, the surface current cannot fight against the deeper giant currents. The better we are doing will only temporarily delay the inevitable.
In context of the last year it matters. Medium inc... (show quote)


Good Morning, Jack!! Yet another factual post!!
We have over financed ourselves to the point of no return and baby step measures is really all we can do...

Boy did you nail it on China!! Our “war” with them will be in trying to keep our petro dollar in the game and if China succeeds in their financial attack of it we will be in serious trouble for sure!! As if we aren’t right now..

We better find something else to base our dollar value on quickly as renewable energies will also be impacting demand on oil soon enough anyway.. Nothing coincidental in China striving to be the world leader of Solar panels either...
Alternatiively natural gas is becoming another resource that will impact the oil market ..

Finally with all the threats of hitting our electrical grid and how easy it would be we need to change that ASAP just as a precautionary plan in my opinion...

Technology is advancing quicker than we or anyone else can really understand..

Reply
May 25, 2018 11:47:10   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
lindajoy wrote:
Good Morning, Jack!! Yet another factual post!!
We have over financed ourselves to the point of no return and baby step measures is really all we can do...

Boy did you nail it on China!! Our “war” with them will be in trying to keep our petro dollar in the game and if China succeeds in their financial attack of it we will be in serious trouble for sure!! As if we aren’t right now..

We better find something else to base our dollar value on quickly as renewable energies will also be impacting demand on oil soon enough anyway.. Nothing coincidental in China striving to be the world leader of Solar panels either...
Alternatiively natural gas is becoming another resource that will impact the oil market ..

Finally with all the threats of hitting our electrical grid and how easy it would be we need to change that ASAP just as a precautionary plan in my opinion...

Technology is advancing quicker than we or anyone else can really understand..
Good Morning, Jack!! Yet another factual post!! br... (show quote)




Good morning Linda, I've been saying since 2000-01 look out for China they want to climb over America at any cost in order to have complete power and control far beyond their region. Their military is something to be feared, they know America is only capable of fighting a war on one front and will take advantage of that.
Trump knows that like oil we need to be steel independent. If China shut down all steel to America it would collapse our auto makers, commercial contractors and begin a crisis in our country. I was glad to hear new steel plants opening as a result of the tariffs and tax cuts.
Have a wonderful day
A blessed day

Reply
May 25, 2018 11:47:57   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
son of witless wrote:
We are both getting far too long in our answers. Lets us see if we can give abridged versions of our brilliant discussion.

that would be good.

son of witless wrote:

My mistake. By the phrases you used and the tone of your rhetoric my impression of you was that YES you are " one of those 20-something hippies with a bag of weed and a subscription to left-wing rhetoric ". I am used to conversing with Socialists and Marxists. You talk the talk, so I assumed you also walked the walk. Or rather you quack like a Marxist-Socialist.

No problem... I was getting the feeling this was the case, and I understand... I often make the same mistake. It's easy to typecast when reading familiar arguments.

son of witless wrote:

" I'm not sure riding motorcycles will make the problem any clearer for you, but it's easy enough to verify that slumping sales is evident. But again, this has no bearing on my argument. "

How can it not ? You bash Trump and Harley because of the closing of a plant and the fact that Trump's tax cuts did not save it and it's jobs. I pointed out that Harley is in a sales slump. I admit I do not know why they can't sell Harleys, but I sure as shooting know that if they don't they have to close plants.
br " I'm not sure riding motorcycles will ma... (show quote)

Before we loose context; by "it" we are referring to what you were calling the "basic problem" that Harley-Davidson is having. The reason why it has no bearing on my argument is that my argument has nothing to do with the performance of the company. My argument sits on the fact that a company was able to spend $700 million on stock buybacks, despite their performance. Look, I would have to be an idiot to actually blame the layoffs on Trump - I KNOW this, so it's a little frustrating when that's all you people think I am saying, especially when that isn't what I said!

son of witless wrote:

Why is that fact so hard to fathom for a guy who is a " successful 50-something businessman who has co-founded three tech companies over his career " ? WELL ?????

It's not hard for me to fathom that slumping sales leads to closing plants. The reason why I haven't said as much isn't because I'm ignoring obvious business patterns but that I think it goes without saying. Again, your entire argument with me has been over things that you think I'm saying but I haven't. You have yet to even notice what I'm saying, which is this...

While Trump and the Republicans were suggesting that corporate savings from the tax cuts would trickle down to the workers, statistics are showing that a disproportionate cut of those savings are going to investors on Wall Street instead.

I've been highlighting those statistics in red since my first response on this topic to try and get people to read it (apparently, that doesn't work). A tiny bit of math is all it takes to notice that $178 billion in stock buybacks in the first three months of 2018 can't possibly be about JUST Harley-Davidson. Obviously, I am looking at a bigger picture and Harley-Davidson is only an example.

Reply
 
 
May 25, 2018 12:45:13   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Good morning Linda, I've been saying since 2000-01 look out for China they want to climb over America at any cost in order to have complete power and control far beyond their region. Their military is something to be feared, they know America is only capable of fighting a war on one front and will take advantage of that.
Trump knows that like oil we need to be steel independent. If China shut down all steel to America it would collapse our auto makers, commercial contractors and begin a crisis in our country. I was glad to hear new steel plants opening as a result of the tariffs and tax cuts.
Have a wonderful day
A blessed day
Good morning Linda, I've been saying since 2000-01... (show quote)


First, may you have a blessed day..

Secondly, again nothing here I do not absolutely agree with.. Other than to say we won’ t have ground warfare they have been wrecking havoc on our finances far too long and gaining the momentum to cause serious problems..

We can do serious damage in air ware fare no doubt but who the heck wants to find out??

How’s the moving going??

Reply
May 25, 2018 13:21:45   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
lindajoy wrote:
I don’t feel bad at all ... You look to spin the facts to justify your disdain of President Trump... I get that .....

I don't "get" that at all linda... Why would I need to spin facts to justify my disdain when my disdain is based on fact as they are?


lindajoy wrote:

The tax cuts are in place now for this year not what happened last year.. Harley has been having negative sales for a few years now..

So? Do you see me blaming the slump in sales on the tax cuts? Or is this you spinning the facts about what I am saying to justify your disdain for me?

lindajoy wrote:

As you pointed out the “nation wide economy” is better now than the last 10 years...
Real gross domestic product (GDP) increased at an annual rate of 2.3 percent in the first quarter of 2018 (table 1), according to the "advance" estimate released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. ... Current-dollar GDP increased 4.3 percent, or $211.2 billion, in the first quarter to a level of $19.97 trillion.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

Next report coming out May 30th suggested it will be over 3% again.. How nice that will be...
br As you pointed out the “nation wide economy” i... (show quote)

So? Do you see me arguing about the state of the economy? Or is this you spinning the facts about what I am saying to justify your disdain for me?

lindajoy wrote:

Another for your consideration...

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/

Very informative... your link says...
403 - Forbidden: Access is denied.
You do not have permission to view this directory or page using the credentials that you supplied.

lindajoy wrote:

Did you by chance get your article from FB????If so don’t feel bad~~ a lot of people gleaned it a negative for Trump ..You weren’t alone..

I don't get my news from FB.

lindajoy wrote:

And finally from Snopes, which I put no stock in

Is there ANY source that provides ANY hint that Trump may not be the hero you think he is that you don't discredit?

lindajoy wrote:

This Facebook post is largely based on a 9 March 2018 MSNBC segment that featured reporter Garrett Haake speaking with employees at a Harley Davidson plant in Kansas City, Missouri. Some viewers, including the above Facebook poster, may have been confused by the segment, as it did not clearly state that Harley-Davidson first announced that this plant would be closing in January 2018 — more than a month before Trump made his tariff decision.

Well, I can't read the facebook post because of that 403 error, so I'll have to imagine what you're talking about. It sounds like your saying there were plans to close the plant before Trump made his tariff decision. Well, this topic is about the tax cuts, not tariff decisions and it's about what the company did with the savings from the tax cuts, not about what caused the plants to close.

lindajoy wrote:

It is true that some American companies have expressed concern about how new tariffs may affect their business going forward.

Wait... is this about the tangent I got into with witless regarding the "trade wars"? (Maybe if you quote what you're responding to...) Anyway, thanks for acknowledging that some American companies do have a concern about how the tariffs can hurt them. The point I was making with that, is that a lot of American business depends on global supply chains, so nationalist/protectionist measures will inherently run the risk of hurting American business as much as protecting it.

lindajoy wrote:

It is also true that Harley-Davidson will soon be closing a plant in Kansas City, Missouri.

However, these items are not directly related. In fact, Harley has planned on consolidating production at the Kansas City plant since 2015, before Trump was even in office; when the company made the announcement, it said that it was due to slowing motorcycle sales:

Yeah, I know all this. Again, I'm not blaming Trump or the tax cuts for the lost jobs... You won't find ANYWHERE in this thread where I made any such claim. In fact, I never claimed ANY reason for the plant closing in Missouri. I got plenty of theories about that in responses to my post because that's what Trump supporters rushed to focus on, but that was never part the issue I am posting about.

So once more (and if you're going to respond please at least have the decency to pay attention to what I'm saying)...

corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year.

So two facts in juxtaposition... By themselves there is nothing to complain about... 67 cents is better than nothing, right? And there's really nothing wrong with massive stock buybacks either. But in juxtaposition we can see the disproportion. With record breaking buybacks reaching $178 billion, all of a sudden 67 cents seems kind of like a $1 tip on a $400 table. The point being made is that these tax cuts are forcing our Republic to offer less assistance to working families and the promise of trickle-down that's supposed to compensate for that is looking like bullshit, which would mean the American working family is being scammed.

Again Harley-Davidson was a mere example because despite their preexisting struggles, they were still able to spend $700 million on stock buybacks in the very first quarter AFTER the tax cuts, so it's pretty obvious where that money came from and where it's going.

I don't draw these points because I have disdain for Trump linda... I have disdain for Trump BECAUSE of these points.

Reply
May 25, 2018 13:49:42   #
emarine
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
In context of the last year it matters. Medium income is up 3%, which is huge.

We grew accustomed to wages falling while inflation grew, this is a great change.

Still I believe we as a nation are in big trouble. Consider if you will that every decision Trump made and makes were walk on water perfect. It dose not effect the now two hundred trillion dollar unfunded liabilities or some of the world's largest economy's departing the Petro dollar T-bills, for China's Verdon of Americas Federal reserve. Or the fact Americas economy is intertwined in the global economy and nations are hanging by a thread. Then there is the super bubbles far, far greater than 08/09. My point is our economy is better than it has been in decades, but it's a surface current fighting decades of corrupt government, our congress and the senate, among other players and regardless what decisions Trump makes or any other president, the surface current cannot fight against the deeper giant currents. The better we are doing will only temporarily delay the inevitable.
In context of the last year it matters. Medium inc... (show quote)



Americans enjoyed their largest two-year raise in decades. Median household income rose to just over $59,000 in 2016, up 3.2% from a year earlier, according to data released by the U.S. Census Bureau Tuesday. That comes on top of a 5.2% increase in 2015.Sep 12, 201

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/12/news/economy/median-income-census/index.html


Trumps Tax cut sounds exactly like Paul Ryan's / Charles Koch's plan from 10 tears ago...

Reply
May 25, 2018 14:20:15   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Good morning Linda, I've been saying since 2000-01 look out for China they want to climb over America at any cost in order to have complete power and control far beyond their region.

I've been saying since 1990 that China is on it's way to being a global economic power. That much we can easily confirm by looking at simple facts like their GDP. What you're saying about their diabolical plans to control the world is simply not provable AND it provokes that irrational fear that conservatives are so famous for. What's with that?

jack sequim wa wrote:

Their military is something to be feared, they know America is only capable of fighting a war on one front and will take advantage of that.

There are indications that they doubt our ability to even fight on one front effectively, given our recent track record. We're known in Asia as a "paper tiger". Fortunately, there are no indications that China is even slightly interested in direct military conflict with the U.S. Their chest beating in the South China Sea is the same thing as our chest beating off the coast of North Korea... It's all... chest beating.

jack sequim wa wrote:

Trump knows that like oil we need to be steel independent.

Why?

jack sequim wa wrote:

If China shut down all steel to America it would collapse our auto makers, commercial contractors and begin a crisis in our country.

It would also cut their sales, which I think is more important to them.

jack sequim wa wrote:

I was glad to hear new steel plants opening as a result of the tariffs and tax cuts.

Aw... sunshine and butterflies... Never mind the fact that these "new steel plants" are in reality just one retired blasting plant being reopened in Illinois. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I think it's great that the plant will open up 500 new jobs, but is it worth all the jobs now at risk because of the tariff?

The American Institute for International Steel, a pro-trade advocacy group, says about 142,000 Americans work in the steel industry. Those workers would stand to benefit from the tariffs. But the institute says about 6.5 million Americans are employed by steel-consuming companies. Some of those jobs would be at risk. How many is hard to say.

The point of the tariffs is to add enough cost to imports that consumers will switch to domestic sources. When you consider the fact reported by S&P that the price of US-made steel is up 71% since Trump's election victory in 2016 you get the a sense of how drastic the impact will be on steel-consuming companies and their 6.5 million workers.

So, your basically cheering Trump for threatening the jobs of 6.5 million workers for the sake of 500.

Reply
 
 
May 25, 2018 14:22:26   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
straightUp wrote:
Yeah, I know all this. Again, I'm not blaming Trump or the tax cuts for the lost jobs... You won't find ANYWHERE in this thread where I made any such claim. In fact, I never claimed ANY reason for the plant closing in Missouri. I got plenty of theories about that in responses to my post because that's what Trump supporters rushed to focus on, but that was never part the issue I am posting about.

So once more (and if you're going to respond please at least have the decency to pay attention to what I'm saying)...

corporate stock buybacks hit a record $178 billion in the first three months of 2018; average hourly earnings for American workers are up 67 cents over the past year.

So two facts in juxtaposition... By themselves there is nothing to complain about... 67 cents is better than nothing, right? And there's really nothing wrong with massive stock buybacks either. But in juxtaposition we can see the disproportion. With record breaking buybacks reaching $178 billion, all of a sudden 67 cents seems kind of like a $1 tip on a $400 table. The point being made is that these tax cuts are forcing our Republic to offer less assistance to working families and the promise of trickle-down that's supposed to compensate for that is looking like bullshit, which would mean the American working family is being scammed.

Again Harley-Davidson was a mere example because despite their preexisting struggles, they were still able to spend $700 million on stock buybacks in the very first quarter AFTER the tax cuts, so it's pretty obvious where that money came from and where it's going.

I don't draw these points because I have disdain for Trump linda... I have disdain for Trump BECAUSE of these points.
Yeah, I know all this. Again, I'm not blaming Trum... (show quote)


First lets clear up something I don’t appreciate.. I do not have disdain for you at all.. I enjoy the debates we get into and appreciate for the most you are cordial to debate with and I enjoy it..We may have different political views but that does not mean I dislike you because of it.

Secondly, your title and opening comments say otherwise:

Trump's Attacks on the Working Class 2 - The Tax Cuts
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May 22, 2018 16:29:42 #
straightUp (a regular here) (online) Joined: May 15, 2013 Posts: 5681 Loc: Earth

At Harley-Davidson, Trump's tax cuts help investors while 800 workers loose their jobs...

Now at the very least it does imply you blame Trump and the tax cuts..
If it was never your intention to so state then perhaps the title and opening paragraph should have been worded differently..

Additionally your “two facts in juxtaposition” is measuring after only one year of Trumps actions.. Its a damn good start and will improve as well... Although many an investor says we’re headed for another recession .. We can not dismiss that nor am I.

Theoretically, we are arguing semantics and what will actually take place. I have already said there is no doubt the rich will get a significant tax cut break. I’ve also pointed out it is they who spend into this economy, along with what we as the middle-class citizens will attain. I know you do not view that as a double benefit but I do....

Likewise your paragraph of ;Harley-Davidson was a mere example because despite their preexisting struggles, they were still able to spend $700 million on stock buybacks in the very first quarter ~~ should tell us all this was a business decision to dry up the market, short term, hoping to put their bikes ( which I love) back in high demand.. Not to mention opening facility elsewhere, which ticks me off!! Build it here or keep it in the country you moved to!!

Anyway, I meant what I told you.. I do not dislike you because of politics.. Not me, just not how I roll on this issue.. If I offended you somehow then please accept my apology as that was not my intention ya gosh dang brat!!!

Edit~~ I forgot to address the othr link error.. It wasn’t on tarrifs at allit was on business growth GDP projection.. Sorry, ill locate it and repost it..

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May 25, 2018 15:01:44   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
lindajoy wrote:
First, may you have a blessed day..

Secondly, again nothing here I do not absolutely agree with.. Other than to say we won’ t have ground warfare they have been wrecking havoc on our finances far too long and gaining the momentum to cause serious problems..

We can do serious damage in air ware fare no doubt but who the heck wants to find out??

How’s the moving going??




Were about four weeks behind, but the weather or temperature will be in the mid 90's during that time and our swimming pool is right out the door. Guess we'll have to suffer... Lol

Decided to detour from California coast up 101 through the Oregon coast for a few weeks on our way. The fifth wheel is already fully prepped and excited since it will be our first trip in our new fifth wheel. If you have been to the Oregon coast you know how beautiful it is. I pushing to extend our trip into Washington for a visit to the Straits of Juan D Fuca and stuff myself on Dungeness Crab. By July the Shells will be full, also it is claimed the straights have the largest Dungeness with the sweetest meat.
Have I teased you enough... Lol

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May 25, 2018 15:11:44   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
emarine wrote:
Americans enjoyed their largest two-year raise in decades. Median household income rose to just over $59,000 in 2016, up 3.2% from a year earlier, according to data released by the U.S. Census Bureau Tuesday. That comes on top of a 5.2% increase in 2015.Sep 12, 201

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/12/news/economy/median-income-census/index.html


Trumps Tax cut sounds exactly like Paul Ryan's / Charles Koch's plan from 10 tears ago...

Which may have made more sense ten years ago when we were in the worst economic recession since 1929. But the economy has been improving since 2010. The very next paragraph in the article you link to following what you quoted is... "This has been two consecutive years of very strong income growth," said Trudy Renwick, assistant division chief at Census." As you know, Trump wasn't in office two years ago. So why would a president who takes over when the economy is doing so well insist on a tax cut to "help the economy"? the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.

Unless... this is another example of preparing the U.S. for another dunking. If we think about the last dunking, ten years ago we might remember that none of the bankers that caused the problem actually served any time for what they did and if we look closer at those involved we can see that they actually made a LOT of money off the economic crash. They, cut their liabilities and got bailed out by the taxpayers. It actually worked out really well for them. So why wouldn't they do it again?

The Trump administration has so far done everything they would need to do to repeat the fun, including the repeal of almost all the regulations designed to prevent it from happening again. If THAT isn't at least a little bit obvious... Also, the fact that in the first quarter since the tax cuts there have been $178 billion in stock buybacks strongly suggests a cannibalization of our industries as Wall Street grabs everything it can before kicking the companies into the gutter.

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May 25, 2018 15:26:34   #
emarine
 
straightUp wrote:
Which may have made more sense ten years ago when we were in the worst economic recession since 1929. But the economy has been improving since 2010. The very next paragraph in the article you link to following what you quoted is... "This has been two consecutive years of very strong income growth," said Trudy Renwick, assistant division chief at Census." As you know, Trump wasn't in office two years ago. So why would a president who takes over when the economy is doing so well insist on a tax cut to "help the economy"? the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.

Unless... this is another example of preparing the U.S. for another dunking. If we think about the last dunking, ten years ago we might remember that none of the bankers that caused the problem actually served any time for what they did and if we look closer at those involved we can see that they actually made a LOT of money off the economic crash. They, cut their liabilities and got bailed out by the taxpayers. It actually worked out really well for them. So why wouldn't they do it again?

The Trump administration has so far done everything they would need to do to repeat the fun, including the repeal of almost all the regulations designed to prevent it from happening again. If THAT isn't at least a little bit obvious... Also, the fact that in the first quarter since the tax cuts there have been $178 billion in stock buybacks strongly suggests a cannibalization of our industries as Wall Street grabs everything it can before kicking the companies into the gutter.
Which may have made more sense ten years ago when ... (show quote)




"If THAT isn't at least a little bit obvious"... only to some but not to most... very frustrating to say the least...

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