crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

[quote=mwdegutis]Are you dense? I've CLEARLY stated my position of who will go to hell. . But to answer your "questions" -- By the way, it appears that all you’re looking for is a fight…


No denser than you. Yes, I am looking for a rhetorical fight with ANYONE who thinks I am going to Hell simply because I'm Catholic. If you were one of the people who stated that in the last round, you've changed.

BTW, what you posted looks a lot like the Apostles' Creed that we recite at mass.

So, I take it your pastor Greg Tyra, has no special training in theology.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

My thoughts precisely.

out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State

Anyone who thinks that their works will get them into Heaven, fails to heed what God says about it in the Bible

Justsss Loc: Wisconsin

out of the woods, Thank you for standing on the WORD OF GOD.

out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State

All sin separates us fom God, so is therefore mortal. So are you saying you are free from sin? I am free from in in that , because of Christ , Iam forgiven, once for all. Are you saying that you, you, must finish what Christ finished?

Justsss Loc: Wisconsin

[quote=crazylibertarian]Will Those Who Say Catholics Are Going to Hell, Go to Hell?




I used this title to provoke those who maintained in another thread that Catholics are going to hell.

CL, try reading “ Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible” by David W. Daniels
This will help explain my feelings about the Catholic Church. Please don’t respond to my response unless you have taken the time to read this very short and concise book. Thank you.

Justsss Loc: Wisconsin

AMEN & AMEN !

Justsss Loc: Wisconsin

[quote=mwdegutis]Are you dense? I've CLEARLY stated my position of who will go to hell. .

mwdegutis, love all of your answers but #6 is excellent!
Lived and worked in Wheaton Il. for years and most of those who want to follow JESUS sure aren’t after coming under the jesuit communist teachings of most cemeteries ( seminarys) of today.
If you can get the book “Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible?” by David W.Daniels. Short but excellent read about the Catholic Church.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

No presuming...straight from the Bible...

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)

And if you use the argument that "faith without works is useless (NASB)", you misunderstand the meaning that if you truly have faith good works will naturally follow NOT you have to have faith and do good works to be saved.

Read the quote I provided AGAIN!

Radiance3

pafret Loc: Northeast

Why do you think you have free will? Christ made the sacrifice, yet if you do not will to follow the moral precepts given to us in the 10 commandments and the natural law you are rejecting Christs sacrifice. Do you believe that monsters like Pol Pot are saved?

Pick any infamous Atheist such as Madalyn Murray O'Hair, do you think that someone who spent their life persecuting Christians was saved by Christ's sacrifice? If you truly believe that there is no further action required on your part then there is no morality for you.

Radiance3

====================
John 21:15-23 GNB
15-After they had eaten, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these others do?” “Yes, Lord,” he answered, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Take care of my lambs."

James 2:14-26
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14-What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15- If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food.
16- and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17-Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18- But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works.
19-You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
20-But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c]
21- Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22- Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23- And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God.
24 -You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

What is the Understanding of Virtues of the Catholic Faith?
Answer:
The word "virtue" is used as a synonym for goodness or sobriety or some likable personality trait, but the Church uses the term in a much more precise way. Virtues are special graces given by God to the soul for the accomplishment of objectives. They inhere in the soul and are subject to strengthening or weakening.
The Church distinguishes between two general categories of virtues: theological and moral.

A. Faith, hope, and charity are called theological virtues because they are the most important characteristics in a Christian’s life, as Paul explains in Romans 5:1-5 and 1 Corinthians 13:13. They pertain (exclusively, in the case of faith and hope, and primarily, in the case of charity) to one’s relationship with God.

Faith is the grace of believing in God’s love for us and in his revealed truths (Lk 1:45, Jn 11:25-26, Eph 2:8).
Hope is the grace of trusting God will be true to his promise to save us from eternal death if we turn to him in repentance (Rom 5:2, 8:25; Heb 6:17-20; 1 Pt 1:3-5).
***Charity is a two-fold grace with the primary effect of moving the will to love God fervently and above all things and with the secondary effect of intensifying love for our neighbor (Dt 6:4-6; Mt 22:36-40, 25:31-46; Mk 12:28-31; Rom 13:8-10; 1 Cor 13:1-13).

B. Moral virtues are so called because they help us live within the moral parameters set forth by the gospel. Chief among them are prudence, justice, temperance, and fortitude, also known as cardinal virtues (derived from the Latin cardo, meaning hinge, because on them hinge all other moral virtues).

1. Prudence is the grace to form correct judgments (Mt 10:16; 1 Pt 4:7).
Justice assists us in dealing equitably with others (Prv 21:21; 1 Tm 6:11).
2. Temperance helps us subdue our sensual appetites and make proper use of God’s creatures (1 Cor 6:12, 10:23-24).
3. Fortitude helps us persevere despite temptations to sin and despair (Rom 8:32-35, Jas 5:10-11).

Other moral virtues are:
1. Humility (Mt 18:1-5) means humble
2. Patience (Heb 10:36-37), means forbearance
3. Obedience (Rom 13:1-7), means submission to authority
4. Chastity (1 Cor 6:15-20), means virginity
5. Piety (Eph 5:15-20), means reverence
6. Veracity (Eph 4:15, 25), means truthful

pafret Loc: Northeast

Pulling quotations from the bible out of context, without a grounding in moral philosophy is worthless, it leads to endless error. In order to be saved you need a belief in God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and you need to lead a moral life. Catholicism recognizes that man's imperfect nature means that he will inevitably fall from the Grace given by Christ;'s sacrifice. To this end the priesthood was empowered by Christ to give absolution.

PZG1225 Loc: Florida

I'll just add to that with John 14:6 Jesus said....."I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man cometh unto the Father, but by me" Be he Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, etc., etc.

Justsss Loc: Wisconsin

pafret, can you please give me the Scriptural references where JESUS empowers the priesthood to give “absolution”?