Hi rumitoid,
It is not either/or. Are you not capable of walking and chewing gum at the very same time?
Did Jesus not say, "Unto God, the things that are Gods, and unto Caesar the things that are Caesars?"
Do we not bring our "Caesars" to power through our political process?
Jesus never said it was mutually exclusive, that we could not engage in both.
The reference in John 15 is part of Jesus' farewell speech to his followers, before his upcoming crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, back whence He had come.
In that portion (John 15:18-19), he was warning them of the persecution to which they would be subjected in the future, for their worship of Him and His Father God, who had sent Him.
Hebrews 11 is referring to all those Old Testament Patriarchs who looked forward to the promised Messiah who would permanently remove their sin, and although they did not live to see Him, they died in full faith that He would yet live to make atonement for their sins.
You omitted the text of Hebrew 11:16 below: "Instead, they were longing for a better country - a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them."
- Just as Jesus said, He has prepared a mansion for each of us who believe...
John17:15 "I am not asking you to take them out of the world , but that you keep them safe from the evil one .
16: They do not belong to the world just as I do not belong to the world.
17: Set them apart in the truth; your word is truth.
18: Just as you sent me into the world , so I sent them into the world.
rumitoid, John 17:16 needs context. This, again is speaking of the gospel: The Father had sent His Son into the world with the message of salvation through faith in Him (John 3:16-18). Jesus is now sending we who believe with that same message... We are set apart from the world that is in the grasp of "the Evil One..." (in the world, but not of it)
In Philippians 3:12–21, Paul imparts the meaning of life, calling all Christians to a task accomplished only through two-way communication with Jesus Christ, through prayer and absorbing His written Words, leading to inner peace, purpose, and joy in our earthly life and in the life which is to come. Paul is urging us to set our earthly goals on heavenly rewards.
Jesus said He came that "we might have life and have it more abundantly" (John 10:10) - not to be an ascetic hermit.
rumitoid wrote:
"Rumitoid, I believe you already know well everything I've just elucidated, however, glancing through the replies you've engendered, you have, for whatever reason, a genius for reducing your opposition into mindless "foaming at the mouth" rudeness, rather than treating you as a fellow human being worthy of receiving the same respect as any other member of the OPP forum."
That is very much appreciated. Thank you.
"I admire your ability to maintain your poise under such conditions, and against such a display of "mob" mentality in bullying you."
That is really appreciated. Thank you again.
Now to the points you brought up.
Please explain the Biblical references to us being "strangers in a strange land," such as this: John 15:18-19 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you." John17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." Philippians 3:20 "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ." Best of all this: Hebrews 11:13-16: "All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
14: For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.
15: And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return."
"Strangers and exiles on earth." Jesus said he had nowhere to lay his head. I take it that we leave it to God or we abandon God and go political. Love is not mainstream life. Countries and people have enemies. To be as perfect as the father in heaven is perfect, we must love our enemies. This is not done through a sniper scope or legislation. The way of Christ is radically different than conventional wisdom and contrary to worldly values. If a Christian is a pillar of society, they have betrayed Christ. It is impossible not to. There is no common ground for a person set apart for Christ's love for all with a patriot's love of country. If you or I are not hated by your neighbors, we are doing something wrong in our faith. Being invited to the WH is a sure sign of straying from Christ's message.
Every Christian is charged with being a clear distinction between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of earth. That can only be accomplished by Spirit and grace. Its nature is far too radical for us to do alone, on our free will. It goes against our basic nature and psychological needs. All of us want to belong, accepted, be part of our community. Jesus says No to that need. Not that we look to set ourselves apart--as do Mennonites, the Amish, and other anabaptist--but rather deeply involved ourselves in community through ministries of love and support.
"Rumitoid, I believe you already know well ev... (
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