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Should all sanctuary city leaders be arrested?
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Mar 16, 2018 13:50:22   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
mactheknife wrote:
You're the one who claims no law was broken in hiring illegal aliens. You look it up.

Look, mac - if someone says NO law was broken what exactly are you expecting them to look up? What if I said it's illegal to eat carrots? Are you going to look for the law that says it's okay to eat carrots to prove that I'm wrong? LOL - You really don't think things through, do you?

YOU are the one that is claiming they DID break the law. Remember that? You said... "an illegal alien was just hired by a government agency in California. That is a crime." ...and THAT my little friend, is a claim that there *IS* a law against hiring that alien, which means you should be able to FIND that law. See how that works? But you can't find the law to back that up can you? So what's the problem? Is it too hard or look for? Are you just another one of those bigots that don't care if there really is a law or not and calling them criminals is just your style of hatred?

Just so you know, I *did* look for the laws that support the claim made by the little weasel, Jeff Sessions... because unlike you, I don't actually say things without verifying them first. So when I say there is no federal law that conflicts with the California sanctuary laws, I'm not just making that up, it's a statement based on my own efforts to find such a law and the empty results of that search. Now there are a LOT of laws out there, so I reserve the possibility that I could be wrong. Part of the reason why I'm provoking you folks is for the off-chance that maybe one of you HAVE found such a law that maybe I missed. I would think anyone of you would LOVE to prove me wrong. So I'm giving you that chance. :)

So far, NONE of you have been able to find a single federal law, constitutional law or treaty signed under the authority of the United States that conflicts with the sanctuary laws in California. Pair that with the strong claims made by all of you that California is breaking "the law" and well it really exposes the degree of hatred you have for people you don't even know and your willingness to accuse people of things you can't prove.

mactheknife wrote:

I'm not angry at people like you, just disappointed.

Well, based on what I know about you so far, I hope to continue "disappointing" you. ;) Sorry, mac - being a bigot just isn't my thing.

Reply
Mar 16, 2018 13:55:16   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
lindajoy wrote:
Yes, no different than anyone else breaking the law and theirs is at this point premediated as well!!


Hey! You put the dress on a day early!

But; that's OK, I am in the mood also.

Reply
Mar 16, 2018 14:05:27   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"I barely even know who he is. Some guy with money, apparently a Democrat" - sUp

Do you think I give a crap if you don't know much about Soros or care?

Well, if your constant streaming of anti-Soros material is any indication, yes, I do. LOL

eagleye13 wrote:

Should we be surprised?
No; but thank you for your interest, sUp.

There's a lot to stay current on these days eagle, I can't stay abreast of the news AND all the conspiracy theories and when you posts these endless parades of links, it's easy to loose interest. If Soros is SO bad that I should be paying attention I suggest you skip the landfill for a change and present a more focused argument. Find the one thing he's doing that poses the greatest threat to our democracy and we can start there. OK?

Reply
 
 
Mar 16, 2018 14:41:40   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
straightUp wrote:
There's a lot to stay current on these days eagle, I can't stay abreast of the news AND all the conspiracy theories and when you posts these endless parades of links, it's easy to loose interest. If Soros is SO bad that I should be paying attention I suggest you skip the landfill for a change and present a more focused argument. Find the one thing he's doing that poses the greatest threat to our democracy and we can start there. OK?


Proper Prog deflection...Some of you Progs demand a link to a storyline and others deflect with," too many informative links"..yep...

Reply
Mar 16, 2018 15:58:48   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
straightUp wrote:
It's interesting that you say it's a crime but can't actually point to the law that makes it a crime. Instead, you tell ME to look it up. You don't even mention what kind of agency hired the alien. Not all agencies are held under the same laws. Wanna try again?

Here's a tip (for when you're arguing with someone who isn't stupid)... when you claim someone is breaking a law, it's a good idea to actually reference that law. Otherwise, you're just another angry guy making noise.

Maybe you can get Loki to help you - I've noticed that at least he has the ability to look up laws.
It's interesting that you say it's a crime but can... (show quote)


How the United States Immigration System Works
Immigration 101
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works
How the Immigration System Works
9.7K August 12, 2016

Download PDF https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/how_the_united_states_immigration_system_works.pdf

U.S. immigration law is very complex, and there is much confusion as to how it works. The Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), the body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. Lawful permanent residency allows a foreign national to work and live lawfully and permanently in the United States. Lawful permanent residents (LPRs) are eligible to apply for nearly all jobs (i.e., jobs not legitimately restricted to U.S. citizens) and can remain in the country even if they are unemployed. Each year the United States also admits noncitizens on a temporary basis. Annually, Congress and the President determine a separate number for refugee admissions.

You will note that the law defines what the criteria are for being in this country lawfully. Any other form of entrance and presence is per se, unlawful. Your question therefore was deceptive in that there are no specific laws defining unlawful immigration yet the condition exists as a default to the normal immigration law which defines lawful occupation. To make the assessment that burrito snappers who wade the Rio Grande are illegal aliens it is only necessary to observe that they do not fit any of the lawful immigration categories.

It is incumbent on the citizens of this nation to follow its laws; it is even more important that State and Local government follow the laws, else we have no law. The illegal alien should not have been knowingly hired for the State post, he needs to be deported.

Reply
Mar 16, 2018 16:14:09   #
mactheknife
 
pafret wrote:
How the United States Immigration System Works
Immigration 101
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works
How the Immigration System Works
9.7K August 12, 2016

Download PDF https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/how_the_united_states_immigration_system_works.pdf

U.S. immigration law is very complex, and there is much confusion as to how it works. The Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), the body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. Lawful permanent residency allows a foreign national to work and live lawfully and permanently in the United States. Lawful permanent residents (LPRs) are eligible to apply for nearly all jobs (i.e., jobs not legitimately restricted to U.S. citizens) and can remain in the country even if they are unemployed. Each year the United States also admits noncitizens on a temporary basis. Annually, Congress and the President determine a separate number for refugee admissions.

You will note that the law defines what the criteria are for being in this country lawfully. Any other form of entrance and presence is per se, unlawful. Your question therefore was deceptive in that there are no specific laws defining unlawful immigration yet the condition exists as a default to the normal immigration law which defines lawful occupation. To make the assessment that burrito snappers who wade the Rio Grande are illegal aliens it is only necessary to observe that they do not fit any of the lawful immigration categories.

It is incumbent on the citizens of this nation to follow its laws; it is even more important that State and Local government follow the laws, else we have no law. The illegal alien should not have been knowingly hired for the State post, he needs to be deported.
How the United States Immigration System Works br ... (show quote)


Thank you, if we do not follow our laws we have no civilization; the stakes are that high.

Reply
Mar 16, 2018 17:38:17   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
mactheknife wrote:
Thank you, if we do not follow our laws we have no civilization; the stakes are that high.


Yep.

Reply
 
 
Mar 16, 2018 21:17:38   #
kankune Loc: Iowa
 
straightUp wrote:
LOL - Apparently you and zilla have missed a lot of the discussion... It's been decided. Sessions has no case. Your Nazi leaders are going to need to actually legislate laws first before they can arrest people for breaking them. No one on this thread has been able to point to a single federal law that California is breaking (gee big surprise). I challenged them all and they came up with... nothing.

...'just noticed your comment - "(which you know they're going to do)"... That's kinda says a lot about you kankune. No innocent until proven guilty crap in your world, right? When people assume that other people they don't even know are bad people just based on their category (black, Mexican, Muslim, alien...) it's called prejudice.
LOL - Apparently you and zilla have missed a lot o... (show quote)

What it says about me is if your an illegal and actually that doesn't even matter. If your white, black, mexican, or muslim. I dont care. If you commit a crime .......you do the time. You don't let the criminal out to commit more crimes against innocent people!!!

Reply
Mar 16, 2018 21:26:56   #
kankune Loc: Iowa
 
mactheknife wrote:
You're the one who claims no law was broken in hiring illegal aliens. You look it up. I'm not angry at people like you, just disappointed.


I'm confused. If your an illegal, then isn't that a crime in itself. She's been here long enough. Has she applied for citizenship?Has she even tried?? I here she passed the bar. How can you be a lawyer and be illegal?

Reply
Mar 17, 2018 11:16:50   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
mactheknife wrote:
Thank you, if we do not follow our laws we have no civilization; the stakes are that high.


Hey! Where did straightUp go?

straightUp wrote:
"It's interesting that you say it's a crime but can't actually point to the law that makes it a crime. Instead, you tell ME to look it up. You don't even mention what kind of agency hired the alien. Not all agencies are held under the same laws. Wanna try again?

Here's a tip (for when you're arguing with someone who isn't stupid)... when you claim someone is breaking a law, it's a good idea to actually reference that law. Otherwise, you're just another angry guy making noise.

Maybe you can get Loki to help you - I've noticed that at least he has the ability to look up laws."


How the United States Immigration System Works
Immigration 101
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works
How the Immigration System Works
9.7K August 12, 2016

Download PDF https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/how_the_united_states_immigration_system_works.pdf

U.S. immigration law is very complex, and there is much confusion as to how it works. The Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), the body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. Lawful permanent residency allows a foreign national to work and live lawfully and permanently in the United States. Lawful permanent residents (LPRs) are eligible to apply for nearly all jobs (i.e., jobs not legitimately restricted to U.S. citizens) and can remain in the country even if they are unemployed. Each year the United States also admits noncitizens on a temporary basis. Annually, Congress and the President determine a separate number for refugee admissions.

You will note that the law defines what the criteria are for being in this country lawfully. Any other form of entrance and presence is per se, unlawful. Your question therefore was deceptive in that there are no specific laws defining unlawful immigration yet the condition exists as a default to the normal immigration law which defines lawful occupation. To make the assessment that burrito snappers who wade the Rio Grande are illegal aliens it is only necessary to observe that they do not fit any of the lawful immigration categories.

It is incumbent on the citizens of this nation to follow its laws; it is even more important that State and Local government follow the laws, else we have no law. The illegal alien should not have been knowingly hired for the State post, he needs to be deported.

Thanks pafret for educating straightUp as well as others.

Reply
Mar 17, 2018 13:12:20   #
zillaorange
 
straightUp wrote:
Well, based on what I know about you so far, I hope to continue "disappointing" you. ;) Sorry, mac - being a bigot just isn't my thing.


ILLEGAL stands for itself ! If you don't go by the rules, as my father & grand mother, & you don't have a green card or appropriate visa, YOUR NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN IS !!! No country can survive for long without boarders & LEGAL means of immigration !!! staightUP, why not invite a unveted "ILLEGAL ALIEN" TO DINNER ? I hear the Samolian crowd are a very interesting group to watch !!! HOW MANY CAME THROUGH obummers open door policy ???!!!

Reply
 
 
Mar 17, 2018 13:31:43   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
zillaorange wrote:
ILLEGAL stands for itself ! If you don't go by the rules, as my father & grand mother, & you don't have a green card or appropriate visa, YOUR NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING AN AMERICAN CITIZEN IS !!! No country can survive for long without boarders & LEGAL means of immigration !!! staightUP, why not invite a unveted "ILLEGAL ALIEN" TO DINNER ? I hear the Samolian crowd are a very interesting group to watch !!! HOW MANY CAME THROUGH obummers open door policy ???!!!


sUp is from England; He should check out how they are doing over there across the pond.

Reply
Mar 17, 2018 13:39:26   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
kankune wrote:


straightUp wrote:

just noticed your comment - "(which you know they're going to do)"... That's kinda says a lot about you kankune. No innocent until proven guilty crap in your world, right? When people assume that other people they don't even know are bad people just based on their category (black, Mexican, Muslim, alien...) it's called prejudice.


What it says about me is if your an illegal and actually that doesn't even matter.

Yeah, you're making a *lot* of sense here kk () Maybe you should calm down first, take a breath, THEN respond. In case you forgot (or never understood) the point I made, it's that it takes a certain kind of hostile bigotry to use immigration laws to categorize people you don't even know anything about as being murderers and rapists. Everyone can see this kk... The American justice system has always taken care to match the crime with the punishment. So you can't give someone 10 years for speeding and you can't treat immigrants like murderers... Unless you're a spiteful bigot.

kankune wrote:

If your white, black, mexican, or muslim. I dont care. If you commit a crime .......you do the time.

And I don't have a problem with that. But in the case of the dreamers, there *is* no "time" for the "crime". See, you don't even know this because you hate these people so much you don't care enough to pay attention to their plight. Tell me kk - what crime did 2 year-old Maria commit when her mother carried her over the border? What's the "time" for that?

kankune wrote:

You don't let the criminal out to commit more crimes against innocent people!!!

Yeah... because we don't want Maria, who is studying medicine in San Diego now, to be a child again to be carried across the border in her mother's arms again, that would be a horrible crime against innocent people. I just really have no words for your kind of bigotry and hatred.

"That which is not just is not law" - William Lloyd Garrison (abolitionist Republican)

Reply
Mar 17, 2018 14:09:41   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
straightUp wrote:
Yeah... because we don't want Maria, who is studying medicine in San Diego now, to be a child again to be carried across the border in her mother's arms again, that would be a horrible crime against innocent people. I just really have no words for your kind of bigotry and hatred.

"That which is not just is not law" - William Lloyd Garrison (abolitionist Republican)


Democrats are filled with phony compassion. How about them trying to straighten out Mexico, England and the rest of the European Union.

BTW;

sUp is from England; He should check out how they are doing over there across the pond.

Reply
Mar 17, 2018 15:11:53   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
pafret wrote:
How the United States Immigration System Works
Immigration 101
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works
How the Immigration System Works
9.7K August 12, 2016

Download PDF https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/how_the_united_states_immigration_system_works.pdf

U.S. immigration law is very complex, and there is much confusion as to how it works. The Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), the body of law governing current immigration policy, provides for an annual worldwide limit of 675,000 permanent immigrants, with certain exceptions for close family members. Lawful permanent residency allows a foreign national to work and live lawfully and permanently in the United States. Lawful permanent residents (LPRs) are eligible to apply for nearly all jobs (i.e., jobs not legitimately restricted to U.S. citizens) and can remain in the country even if they are unemployed. Each year the United States also admits noncitizens on a temporary basis. Annually, Congress and the President determine a separate number for refugee admissions.

You will note that the law defines what the criteria are for being in this country lawfully. Any other form of entrance and presence is per se, unlawful. Your question therefore was deceptive in that there are no specific laws defining unlawful immigration yet the condition exists as a default to the normal immigration law which defines lawful occupation. To make the assessment that burrito snappers who wade the Rio Grande are illegal aliens it is only necessary to observe that they do not fit any of the lawful immigration categories.

It is incumbent on the citizens of this nation to follow its laws; it is even more important that State and Local government follow the laws, else we have no law. The illegal alien should not have been knowingly hired for the State post, he needs to be deported.
How the United States Immigration System Works br ... (show quote)


Thanks for the link pafret... It's actually the same link I was looking at a few days ago... It's the source of that 675,000 limit I quoted.

So... there's a few things you are either overlooking or just not understanding... (but don't worry, there's still a lot that I am trying to understand as well)

First of all, the document you are referencing describes the policies of the immigration services under the Executive Branch. Although these policies comply with actual law, they are not themselves "federal laws". Federal laws can only be legislated by Congress according to Article 1. So, in the interest of time, I'm just going to take you to where the "federal laws" actually are, but before I do that I want to make a point.

What I am about to do, is something no one else on this thread has been able to do... Despite all the strong accusations of illegal immigrants being criminals, I am the only person here that actually located the federal laws on that they all insist these immigrants are breaking. The point I'm making here is that so many of you were aggressively accusing people of breaking laws and yet none of you could even find the laws you say they are breaking. That isn't the hallmark of a just society; that is the hallmark of a vindictive mob.

That being said... Title 8 of the United States Code covers that law pafret. Good luck trying to make sense of it, Title 8 is mostly a tangle of links to other sections and titles because of all the shifting around over the years and most of the rules apply to potential employers and government agencies and governs how they deal with immigrants rather than the immigrant himself. As far as I can tell, the "time" for the "crime" of entering the country illegally is still based on the Immigration Act of 1924, including the current 6-mos maximum detention for a first offense, something Sessions is already violating. BTW, that first offense is a misdemeanor, hardly the equivalent to a murderer or a rapist, which is clearly the picture Sessions is trying to paint.

Secondly, The whole issue with sanctuary started with DACA, which is a protective measure for people who have fallen into a category where there *IS* no federal law. All the crimes defined in Title 8 apply to people who actually commit them. The issue we have is that we don't feel right holding young children responsible for their own immigration if their parents were making the decision for them. So what do we do with these young people? Obama asked Congress to solve this but that was when the Children of the Corn were running Congress and they were basically saying fu*k-u to EVERYTHING Obama asked for, so he created DACA and he was very upfront about the difference between a stopgap like DACA and an actual law such as what the Dreamer Act was supposed to be.

Getting back to the sanctuary laws, they are all specific reactions to new immigration policies that were never legislated by Congress. Most of them are based on the same legal principals that the Children of the Corn were using to attack Obama's polices including DACA itself. You should check into it. There's a tons of Obama-era arguments challenging the authority of the Executive Branch on immigration. Funny how when the White House changes hands, all of a sudden the Executive Branch is the supreme law and everyone should just follow it.

Bottom line here... Sessions is a liar.

Reply
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