Sicilianthing

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Actually Peter it is indeed a talent, one of many on how to expose frauds like you and yours.

There are Millions of us out there Using the tools, laws like FOIA and some other new tricks to uncover the Lies, wreckage, trickery and deceit of those like you who are Traitors and dont belong here.

straightUp Loc: California

Thank you for saying so.


I'm willing to fight for my family and loved ones.


I've read the conspiracy theories about the U.S. being controlled by the Crown and I don't buy it. It's far easier for me to believe the conspiracy theory itself is a conspiracy designed to encourage us to abandon our democracy.


Just curious... How exactly are you preparing to confront the government?


It's written in 18th century English, so while the words aren't difficult to understand, the message can be somewhat confusing at times, because the context has changed over the centuries. There are plenty of people out there that claim to be constitutional experts, but their perspectives can vary when applying the Constitution to a contemporary context, such as healthcare, which didn't exist in 1789.


First let me say, that just because I oppose Trump, doesn't mean I'm good with the way Washington is. I have been rebelling against Washington for about 30 years now.

Secondly, if you're one of those people who think you can shoot your way to victory, you need a wake up call. You need a LOT more than a cache of guns and ammo. If that's all you got, you're already loosing the fight. Guns are auxiliary at best in today's world of cyber-warfare.

I say this as a person who is actively developing alternate networks that can't be controlled by companies like AT&T or Verizon. Without these networks no group of gun-toting, paramilitary enthusiasts will stand a chance, especially if they can be so easily swayed by someone as simple-minded and obvious as Trump.

I'm probably far more radical than you think. As an anti-Federalist, I oppose the very existence of the federal government. I see no advantage for us as a nation of 350 million to be lumped together in one Republic. Democracy becomes ineffective with that many people. For the 1% however, the advantages are huge because our system, from the moment the Constitution was ratified, has ALWAYS been fraudulent and has always been easy for the plutocrats to control.

S. Maturin

"I say this as a person who is actively developing alternate networks that can't be controlled by companies like AT&T or Verizon. Without these networks no group of gun-toting, paramilitary enthusiasts will stand a chance, especially if they can be so easily swayed by someone as simple-minded and obvious as Trump."
Communication is, as one of the three 'C's , an absolute necessity. You are absolutely correct.

"I'm probably far more radical than you think. As an anti-Federalist, I oppose the very existence of the federal government. I see no advantage for us as a nation of 350 million to be lumped together in one Republic. Democracy becomes ineffective with that many people. For the 1% however, the advantages are huge because our system, from the moment the Constitution was ratified, has ALWAYS been fraudulent."

'Anti-Federalist'? You surely cannot be envisioning fifty separate nation states instead of a federation, can you?

I would prefer a much weaker federalist governing body like the one originally planned, but the need for some central body seems almost imperative.

straightUp Loc: California

Thank you Pete... Yeah, I'm already familiar with a lot of what drives people like Sicilian so it's hard not to stereotype, but I have to admit, he seems a lot more considerate than some of his peers.

Even so, this isn't the age of brawn anymore... terrorists have been proving that for a number of years now. These paramilitary folks aren't that different in the sense that they have this unfaltering trust in guns and God. It seems the groups that go the farther have at least some measure of brains and technical abilities. I don't see much of that among the paramilitary groups. Many of them from the military don't understand that if you disconnect the battalion from the intel, they're effectiveness almost completely disappears.

I also think it's a shame that so many people are rushing for the guns before they actually know who their enemies are. For any American in the 99%, Trump *IS* the enemy. So it doesn't matter how tough they think they are or much ammunition they stock, if they can't figure out who the enemy is they're going to loose.

straightUp Loc: California

Some states like CA can stand on their own. I think many other states would need to combine. I might be a little selfish in this scenario in that I'm thinking primarily of my state... California, the 6th largest economy in the world.

The point at which I would accept a federal government is the point where the Electoral College is removed so that every citizen has an equal share of democratic power (as tiny as it would be) AND that the federal government no longer forces the people to spend half their tax money on a military for carrying out the imperialism of the 1%.

Sicilianthing

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Also great and valid points... we have some common ground I see.

S. Maturin

Some states like CA can stand on their own. I think many other states would need to combine. I might be a little selfish in this scenario in that I'm thinking primarily of my state... California, the 6th largest economy in the world.

6th largest.. how 'large' would that be without federal assistance, I wonder?

The point at which I would accept a federal government is the point where the Electoral College is removed so that every citizen has an equal share of democratic power (as tiny as it would be) AND that the federal government no longer forces the people to spend half their tax money on a military for carrying out the imperialism of the 1%.

I understand the appeal of individuality in personal lives as well as local and state governments, but I cannot help feel that time has long passed and to wish for division into nation states - no matter how appealing- is just too utopian. Have you ever considered how vulnerable a target CA would appear to, say, China or N. Korea without the military might of the USA protecting it?

Sicilianthing

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yep that's what we fought for - separation of powers - Anti Federalists were serfs but smarter than most today about this protection which I think has now been compromised.

I'll say it again for the record:

Trump's in trouble already with the 3 branches, how it works, his authority, his position as represents the Anti Federalists from the Foreign Interest Crowns

This rabbit hole is deep and most Dumbasses don't get it.

Sicilianthing

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This is always par for the course in going to war StraightUp.
the lines have to be defined and we're well on the way to doing this.
My fear is that in the next year or within the next year we are going to cross the PNR with this process.

When that happens (and you'll know it) we're in serious trouble.

Sicilianthing

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Nope I disagree, now you're talking about a bigger experiment than we're already in.

You're talking about a Repackaging.

straightUp Loc: California

[quote=S. Maturin]Some states like CA can stand on their own. I think many other states would need to combine. I might be a little selfish in this scenario in that I'm thinking primarily of my state... California, the 6th largest economy in the world.

6th largest.. how 'large' would that be without federal assistance, I wonder?

Probably larger, since California actually puts more INTO the federal system than it gets out. This is something conservatives tend to overlook in their rush to demonize CA as a "socialist" state that depends on federal subsidies. Very popular joke... only people don't realize how much of a joke it really is.

Only 14 out the 50 states in the union are classified as "donor states" (providing more money to the federal government than they get back) and California is on top of that list. So not only would California come out ahead if the federal system was eliminated, many of the red states (which are typically poorer) would loose the federal subsidies THEY depend on because California would no longer be providing that money.

[quote=S. Maturin]
The point at which I would accept a federal government is the point where the Electoral College is removed so that every citizen has an equal share of democratic power (as tiny as it would be) AND that the federal government no longer forces the people to spend half their tax money on a military for carrying out the imperialism of the 1%.

[i] I understand the appeal of individuality in personal lives as well as local and state governments, but I cannot help feel that time has long passed and to wish for division into nation states - no matter how appealing- is just too utopian. [/quote]
I don't see why... I realize that American culture tends to breed conformity which impedes the ability to think outside the box and departing from the federal system is WAY outside the box of "acceptable thinking", but other than that I can see no logical reason to assume that secession is "too utopian".




Have you considered that about a third of the U.S. military is provided by California? If California leaves, the military "might" of the US (which hasn't actually won a war in 70 years) would seriously be depleted.

Besides, California already has a good economic relationship with China that has nothing to do with Washington. In fact our governor just got back from negotiations with China... the most highlighted aspect of which is California's commitment to curb carbon emissions, in spite of Trumps withdrawal from the Paris Accord. I seriously doubt China is going to attack a major economy like California anymore than they would attack Germany, France or Japan.

S. Maturin

1/3 of the US Military?! I would like to see some numbers about some claims you have made.

There is no way in hell CA could exist for any length of time- months, maybe?- without the military of the USA. It would never be able to raise and support a military capable of even fending off a Mexican move let alone a determined invasion from a real military power.

As for the economy; How about some state numbers as to income and expenditures? I think SanFran could sink the rest of CA economically.

I do believe you are a dreamer and quite self-disillusioned in much of what you profess.

straightUp Loc: California

From what I can tell, the lines being defined by the various mobs of angry Americans, especially those calling themselves "patriots" are entirely delirious. Maybe you can show me some examples that I haven't seen yet?



I'm not what "PNR" is a reference to. But if you're talking about an armed rebellion against the government, this is what *I* think will most likely happen... For the sake of argument I'll refer to your groups (paramilitary or whatever) as "patriots".

The government will identify these "patriots" as terrorists and will isolate them economically ('freezing accounts, revoking licenses, etc...) and culturally (using the media to portray the rebels as terrorists - so yes, we will know about it, but probably not the way you are thinking).

There are two things to be aware of going into this. First is the extent to which the government has already prepared for the type of action I think your are suggesting. Since 9/11 the government has been developing systems to track and obstruct what they call terrorists.

The USA PATRIOT Act (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism... Act) In fact provides a foundation for destroying any of the civil rights laws that have been established over the years to protect us from an overbearing government, thereby clearing the way for a host of surveillance, security and prison systems designed to control anything that threatens the government, despite the safeguards against this by the Constitution.

If you have any doubts about this I suggest reading section 505 of that 700-page law. The important thing to realize is that the entire law is void of any definition for the term "terrorism". As it stands the POTUS, has the supreme right to call ANYONE a terrorist even a U.S. citizen.

The second thing to consider is the way the media sways the opinions of most Americans in such a way that we become divided. Here it's not so much the government but the ruling class that influences the media directly and in very sophisticated ways, including feeds into a wide range of channels that various factions tune into. We are already in a sort of beta-testing period where police brutality is exposed and the media's ability to influence the reaction of the people is being tested with what I think are alarming results.

From Bundy to Black Lives Matter, Americans confronted or victimized by the government are demonized by the media with tremendous effect. These practices can succeed in isolating "patriots" from the rest of the population who will not see the rebellion as a true fight for the people, but as a crime wave by people who deserve to be imprisoned.

Divide and conquer.

So... Be prepared to be classified as a terrorist. Be prepared to loose all your money that isn't stuffed under a mattress. Be prepared for the media to paint an ugly picture of your cause and be prepared for the American people to turn their backs on you.

In closing I just want to make sure you understand that I'm not trying to belittle your cause or your effectiveness but I *am* saying that the patriots I know, tend to overestimate their own abilities and underestimate the power of the government and the ruling class that controls it.

I think at this point, thanks to the ineffectiveness of a dumb-ass president, there is still a chance for the people to regain some control of the government through a democratic process. This alternative won't be as exciting as mustering up for battle but it has a far better chance of securing a better future for our children. There is a lot of action on this front right now, especially since Trump won the election and if you noticed, Muslim extremists have been mustering up for years and look where it's getting them... endless war and suffering.

Do you have children Sicilian?

Sicilianthing

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He probably supports the Gas Tax Rip Off in Cali...
He might like Sanctuary cities too
He might be a Federalist and so he's not anti Federalist like us which means the Independent and lefty issues may have gotten to him long ago.

I can go on and on but I have to carefully answer his next reply to me without getting arrested, Ha !

It's a complicated one - most won't entertain.

Sicilianthing

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I'm quite mobile so I work often from the mobile device and it does not let me dissect the post like you can to answer each and every sentence or comment.

PNR means Point of No Return - usually it's a suicide mission or heavy casualty scenario.

Yes a War is coming soon and many of those fighters are military, veterans and really pissed off patriots who are heavily armed and organizing with other Groups and True Militias to fight the very Scumbag FED you so support.

Yep we've got that same Play by Play FED book right out of the pentagon, imagine that.

Here's a snapshot clue for you about the Gubment you talk so highly of.
Half of them will be dead when it starts along with all those in the agencies who will take up arms against us and call us Terrorists... ha !

Let them do those things you say and it will back fire on them.

Every Bank will Burn
Every agency will be sacked
We Will split their ranks in 2 within a matter of weeks, half of them will be running and those who live will gladly come serve the ranks of the Patriot fighters, Real Americans.
The entire infrastructure will collapse by their actions and it falls perfectly into our plans.

They are out manned and out gunned but you need to find that out on your own.

The Patsy Act is just that and 100% factually Unconstitutional and we will be fighting to remove that as well.

The Media ? Those towers and stations will burn too... you must be stuck in the 1960' or 70's ... Patriots have been planning for these counter contingencies for decades, Please you're talking out of your ass and it's embarrassing.

Yes we will actually be dividing and conquering all the City, County and State Power Centers quickly and then onto the Armories and Assets...

Yes there will be problems as with any rebellion for the Little man ... and yep you should take this an official notice... there are Hundreds of Thousands of Ex Military - Veterans helping the average man and Patriot join, learn, share information, train and prepare for the fight that's coming.

All I can add at this point is preparations have seriously ramped up in the past year and more is coming.

You can Google Active Militias and see plenty of the data there, it's no secret obviously..

You can also reach out to one in your area there are many and they will gladly have you in a townhall.

Have some faith in your fellow Patriot Neighbor but keep a good eye on him at all times, he could always be a traitor.

Nuff Said.