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No one mentioned divine guidance, not one.
Apr 5, 2017 14:33:38   #
RETW Loc: Washington
 
The Sneeze

They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-two students filing into the already crowded auditorium. With their rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt.

Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and Moms freely brushed away tears.

This class would NOT pray during the commencements, not by choice, but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it.

The principal and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families.

The speeches were nice, but they were routine until the final speech received a standing ovation.

A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then, it happened.

All 92 students, every single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED !!!!

The student on stage simply looked at the audience and said,

'GOD BLESS YOU'

And he walked off the stage...
The audience exploded into applause. This graduating class had found a unique way to invoke God's blessing on their future with or without the court's approval.

Isn't this a wonderful story? Pass it on to all your friends.........and

GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

This is a true story; it happened at the University of Maryland .

Oh, how I wish THIS one would take off and FILL the whole Country!!

RETW



Reply
Apr 5, 2017 14:39:02   #
PeterS
 
RETW wrote:
The Sneeze

They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-two students filing into the already crowded auditorium. With their rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt.

Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and Moms freely brushed away tears.

This class would NOT pray during the commencements, not by choice, but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it.

The principal and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families.

The speeches were nice, but they were routine until the final speech received a standing ovation.

A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then, it happened.

All 92 students, every single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED !!!!

The student on stage simply looked at the audience and said,

'GOD BLESS YOU'

And he walked off the stage...
The audience exploded into applause. This graduating class had found a unique way to invoke God's blessing on their future with or without the court's approval.

Isn't this a wonderful story? Pass it on to all your friends.........and

GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

This is a true story; it happened at the University of Maryland .

Oh, how I wish THIS one would take off and FILL the whole Country!!

RETW
The Sneeze br br They walked in tandem, each of t... (show quote)


So tell me, if no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that god disappeared? Does god not know the hearts of those who marched before him? If that's the case then shame on him...

Reply
Apr 5, 2017 16:02:14   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Your point is well taken. If one has read the scriptures, then it becomes obvious that prayer is a very private thing. Take Matthew chapter 5, verses 5 and 6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...." And should we follow His examples, we should pray at the appointed times, for example at the start of the day, before meals, and when we find ourselves in need of guidance. But, there is nothing in that scripture that prohibits honest and heartfelt prayer in public.

In regards to public prayer in our society, it strikes me as strange that prayer in schools is forbidden, but prayers at government meeting was upheld by the Supreme Court. In the ruling, Kennedy wrote: "As a practice that has long endured, legislative prayer has become part of our heritage and tradition, part of our expressive idiom, similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, inaugural prayer, or the recitation of 'G*d save the United States and this honorable court' at the opening of this court's sessions." Most educational systems also had a "long endured" practice of opening benedictions asking for G*d to help the new students in the future endeavors. However, this action was ruled to be unconstitutional in public schools. A double standard.... as I see it, yes.


Now then, to address your question directly. If no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that G*d disappeared.... No, G*d does not disappear, but He is our Father. Think about this logically, when you were a child and your parent (Papa) watched as you struggled to complete a task. If you did not ask for his help, could you legitimately expect him to give your guidance or physical help? The same for our Father, He will allow us to struggle and fail or succeed on our own. However, when we ask for His help, He provides it. The help may not be as apparent as providing you with a check when you are down on your finances, but He may provide you with an opportunity to apply or be hired for a better job. Our Father is always present, regardless if we invite Him or not. Matthew Chapter 7 verse 7 comes to mind: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."


PeterS wrote:
So tell me, if no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that god disappeared? Does god not know the hearts of those who marched before him? If that's the case then shame on him...

Reply
 
 
Apr 5, 2017 16:35:30   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
RETW wrote:
The Sneeze

They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-two students filing into the already crowded auditorium. With their rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt.

Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and Moms freely brushed away tears.

This class would NOT pray during the commencements, not by choice, but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it.

The principal and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families.
R
The speeches were nice, but they were routine until the final speech received a standing ovation.

A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then, it happened.

All 92 students, every single one of them, suddenly SNEEZED !!!!

The student on stage simply looked at the audience and said,

'GOD BLESS YOU'

And he walked off the stage...
The audience exploded into applause. This graduating class had found a unique way to invoke God's blessing on their future with or without the court's approval.

Isn't this a wonderful story? Pass it on to all your friends.........and

GOD BLESS YOU!!!!

This is a true story; it happened at the University of Maryland .

Oh, how I wish THIS one would take off and FILL the whole Country!!

RETW
The Sneeze br br They walked in tandem, each of t... (show quote)

Thank you for this story!!!! May they always find a way!!!👍👍👍👍👍👍

Reply
Apr 5, 2017 17:38:08   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
PeterS wrote:
So tell me, if no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that god disappeared? Does god not know the hearts of those who marched before him? If that's the case then shame on him...


You simply cannot help making a fool out of yourself.

Reply
Apr 5, 2017 17:39:31   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
TexaCan wrote:
Thank you for this story!!!! May they always find a way!!!👍👍👍👍👍👍


We always will won't we!

Reply
Apr 5, 2017 17:55:16   #
PeterS
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Your point is well taken. If one has read the scriptures, then it becomes obvious that prayer is a very private thing. Take Matthew chapter 5, verses 5 and 6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...." And should we follow His examples, we should pray at the appointed times, for example at the start of the day, before meals, and when we find ourselves in need of guidance. But, there is nothing in that scripture that prohibits honest and heartfelt prayer in public.

In regards to public prayer in our society, it strikes me as strange that prayer in schools are forbidden, but prayers at government meeting was upheld by the Supreme Court. In the ruling, Kennedy wrote: "As a practice that has long endured, legislative prayer has become part of our heritage and tradition, part of our expressive idiom, similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, inaugural prayer, or the recitation of 'G*d save the United States and this honorable court' at the opening of this court's sessions." Most educational systems also had a "long endured" practice of opening benedictions asking for G*d to help the new students in the future endeavors. However, this action was ruled to be unconstitutional in public schools. A double standard.... as I see it, yes.


Now then, to address your question directly. If no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that G*d disappeared.... No, G*d does not disappear, but He is our Father. Think about this logically, when you were a child and your parent (Papa) watched as you struggled to complete a task. If you did not ask for his help, could you legitimately expect him to give your guidance or physical help? The same for our Father, He will allow us to struggle and fail or succeed on our own. However, when we ask for His help, He provides it. The help may not be as apparent as providing you with a check when you are down on your finances, but He may provide you with an opportunity to apply or be hired for a better job. Our Father is always present, regardless if we invite Him or not. Matthew Chapter 7 verse 7 comes to mind: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."
Your point is well taken. If one has read the scr... (show quote)


Prayer is not a struggle though. My whole point is--if god exists then whether or not we pray publicly is totally irrelevant--he knows your heart and can hear you equally well publicly or privately. When I was a theist I prayed all the time and never once did I think god didn't hear me because I prayed silently. Before a big test I prayed, during the test I prayed. Never did I think I was being discriminated against because it was expected that my prayers remained between my god and myself. So why the change today? Muslims need to pray several times a day so in here in Texas we accommodate them by giving them their own rooms to pray in. If Jews or Christians need the same accommodation then why don't you petition for the same treatment as Muslims? If everyone has your own room to pray in I think school prayer is just fine. That way no one is bothered by the other persons theological needs and each of you can pray as loudly as you need so that your god can hear you. Not only that, but once again you all can feel wonderful and secure in the illusion that god is once again in our public school system--even though, if he really exists, he was never left the building...

Reply
 
 
Apr 5, 2017 17:57:38   #
PeterS
 
padremike wrote:
You simply cannot help making a fool out of yourself.

And what was foolish about my statement? Do you know or were you simply moving your e-vile mouth...

Reply
Apr 5, 2017 18:35:55   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
PeterS wrote:
And what was foolish about my statement? Do you know or were you simply moving your e-vile mouth...


Anytime something positive is presented regarding the Christian God you never fail to make a hateful or disrespectful remark. Perhaps a blessing may help?

The peace of God, which passeth all understanding, keep your heart and mind in the knowledge and love of God, and of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord: And the Blessing of God Almighty, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, be upon you and remain with you always. Amen.

Reply
Apr 5, 2017 19:25:46   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Okay.... and where in my response did I say prayer must be public and not private? In fact, the quote I gave you is in regard to prayer being a private thing.... even Jesus prayed in private. Unless the prayer, such as blessing a meal, was required under "law."

Prayer is not new to the US, in fact did you know that the colonist often asked for help from G*d, Edward Winslow’s record of the Pilgrims’ experiences, reprinted in Alexander Young’s Chronicles of the Pilgrims (Boston, 1841), stated: “Drought and the like considerations moved not only every good man privately to enter into examination with his own estate between G*d and his conscience, and so to humiliation before Him, but also to humble ourselves together before the Lord by Fasting and Prayer.” The same week Congress passed the Bill of Rights, President George Washington declared, October 3, 1789: “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty G*d, to obey His will...and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me ‘to recommend to the People of the United States a Day of Public Thanksgiving and Prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty G*d, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness’..." In 1787, prayer was introduced or shall I say enforced in our educational institutions. Yale College had as its requirement, 1787: “All the scholars are obliged to attend Divine worship in the College Chapel on the Lord’s Day and on Days of Fasting and Thanksgiving appointed by public authority.” Going even further back, Massachusetts passed a law requiring compulsory School called the “Old Deluder Satan Law”. This law was passed to assure that children could read their Bibles.

I could go on regarding our history but, I think this will show that the only change in prayer in schools is the elimination not the will to have bible study and consequently prayers in our everyday life, to include our educational institutions.

I see no harm in prayers.... for those that are atheist, it is a joke and of little consequence. For religious people, it has great meaning. As the courts pointed out; "prayers doesn't violate the Establishment Clause as long as no religion is advanced or disparaged, and residents aren't coerced."

Lastly.... regarding special accommodations. There is only one cult that I know of that requires special accommodations for their prayers; muslim. They also demand accommodations in hygiene (place to wash) in the immediate area of their prayer rooms in addition to dietary requirements in the school lunch rooms. Not to mention the exclusion of nonmuslims. Jews, as you may not know have special requirement in dietary...... but, those students who do attend public schools bring their lunches rather than burdening the school districts. Jews are also required under law to pray three times a day; shacharit, minchah and arvith or maariv. None require bowing or kneeling, a cantor singing, or someone to officiate; they are done in a private space and do not draw attention.... most people who witness this think they are "resting their eyes or brain." Ergo, no need to make any special requests. I know of Christian students that meet.... around lunch tables or on the school grounds to study the Bible. They ask only to be left alone during these times; they do no harm and should be allowed to meet, pray, or exchange information. It happens on their regularly scheduled classroom break periods. Unlike muslims who actually demand their curriculum be modified from everyone else to leave class or skip classes for their ritual prayers.

PeterS wrote:
Prayer is not a struggle though. My whole point is--if god exists then whether or not we pray publicly is totally irrelevant--he knows your heart and can hear you equally well publicly or privately. When I was a theist I prayed all the time and never once did I think god didn't hear me because I prayed silently. Before a big test I prayed, during the test I prayed. Never did I think I was being discriminated against because it was expected that my prayers remained between my god and myself. So why the change today? Muslims need to pray several times a day so in here in Texas we accommodate them by giving them their own rooms to pray in. If Jews or Christians need the same accommodation then why don't you petition for the same treatment as Muslims? If everyone has your own room to pray in I think school prayer is just fine. That way no one is bothered by the other persons theological needs and each of you can pray as loudly as you need so that your god can hear you. Not only that, but once again you all can feel wonderful and secure in the illusion that god is once again in our public school system--even though, if he really exists, he was never left the building...
Prayer is not a struggle though. My whole point is... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 6, 2017 03:17:27   #
PeterS
 
padremike wrote:
Anytime something positive is presented regarding the Christian God you never fail to make a hateful or disrespectful remark. Perhaps a blessing may help?

The peace of God, which passeth all understanding, keep your heart and mind in the knowledge and love of God, and of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord: And the Blessing of God Almighty, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, be upon you and remain with you always. Amen.

Answering my questions would work just as well. Why is it you guys are so adverse in directly answering a question?

Here is the exchange in case you missed it. My comment to the Opening Topic was: So tell me, if no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that god disappeared? Does god not know the hearts of those who marched before him? If that's the case then shame on him...

Now to be honest I think that is a reasonable question and given that Pennylynn gave me the courtesy of treating it as such. You however was lost how to comment and just issued snide and crass comments.

This is the next one coming from you: You simply cannot help making a fool out of yourself.

How I made a fool out of myself or what was foolish about my comment you never bothered to say. This is one of the reasons I've come to be skeptical of you because you have no problem pointing your finger at others just coming up with a coherent reason why you are doing so.

Now the point of my comment was that god should be able to hear you even if you aren't making a public spectacle of yourselves. I was taught that god heard you no matter how you prayed and in fact he sorta looked down on those whose only reason to pray was so that others could hear what they said. But hey, I'm an atheist so what do I know, right!

And last you come up with this brilliant piece of work: Anytime something positive is presented regarding the Christian God you never fail to make a hateful or disrespectful remark. Perhaps a blessing may help?

Now if something positive was presented it was never presented to me. You guys act as if the whole world falls apart if somehow you are prevented from invoking the name of god. Well, I'm sorry but it doesn't, sneeze or no sneeze--and for the record I say "bless you" without the god. Pray or don't pray, I really don't care but don't sit there and make me listen to you--especially when your prayers are only being issued so others can hear you. Can you Christians honesty not pray at home, on the way to a meeting, or silently to yourselves when you arrive at your destination? You guys act if your Christian world comes tumbling down if you are asked to do something you aren't accustomed to.

If god exists then he hears your prayers and more important he knows you hearts and what it is you truly want to say. If your god is truly there then nothing is gained whether you verbalize a prayer or say one silently to yourself. The only time it matters is if god isn't there and then you need the affirmation of others to convince yourself that what you believe is true. And I'm sorry padre but I'm not going to sit there an smile and grin while you seek the affirmation of others because you lack the convictions to make yourself believe that god is real. That's on you padre not me so bless you and good night...

Reply
 
 
Apr 6, 2017 11:29:56   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
PeterS wrote:
Answering my questions would work just as well. Why is it you guys are so adverse in directly answering a question?

Here is the exchange in case you missed it. My comment to the Opening Topic was: So tell me, if no one asked for divine guidance does that mean that god disappeared? Does god not know the hearts of those who marched before him? If that's the case then shame on him...

Now to be honest I think that is a reasonable question and given that Pennylynn gave me the courtesy of treating it as such. You however was lost how to comment and just issued snide and crass comments.

This is the next one coming from you: You simply cannot help making a fool out of yourself.

How I made a fool out of myself or what was foolish about my comment you never bothered to say. This is one of the reasons I've come to be skeptical of you because you have no problem pointing your finger at others just coming up with a coherent reason why you are doing so.

Now the point of my comment was that god should be able to hear you even if you aren't making a public spectacle of yourselves. I was taught that god heard you no matter how you prayed and in fact he sorta looked down on those whose only reason to pray was so that others could hear what they said. But hey, I'm an atheist so what do I know, right!

And last you come up with this brilliant piece of work: Anytime something positive is presented regarding the Christian God you never fail to make a hateful or disrespectful remark. Perhaps a blessing may help?

Now if something positive was presented it was never presented to me. You guys act as if the whole world falls apart if somehow you are prevented from invoking the name of god. Well, I'm sorry but it doesn't, sneeze or no sneeze--and for the record I say "bless you" without the god. Pray or don't pray, I really don't care but don't sit there and make me listen to you--especially when your prayers are only being issued so others can hear you. Can you Christians honesty not pray at home, on the way to a meeting, or silently to yourselves when you arrive at your destination? You guys act if your Christian world comes tumbling down if you are asked to do something you aren't accustomed to.

If god exists then he hears your prayers and more important he knows you hearts and what it is you truly want to say. If your god is truly there then nothing is gained whether you verbalize a prayer or say one silently to yourself. The only time it matters is if god isn't there and then you need the affirmation of others to convince yourself that what you believe is true. And I'm sorry padre but I'm not going to sit there an smile and grin while you seek the affirmation of others because you lack the convictions to make yourself believe that god is real. That's on you padre not me so bless you and good night...
Answering my questions would work just as well. Wh... (show quote)


You would sour vinegar!

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