Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

Zero. Nobody has starved to death, died of neglect, or been lost to crime because of a 'lack of socialism'. Socialism has an abysmal record as a governmental system, that's why there are plenty of people in Venezuela right now eating from dumpsters and dying for a lack of urgent medical attention, because socialism has destroyed it all.



Yes it is. Any government handout is socialism. Any time someone forcibly takes from one person and gives to another, that is socialism. Without government force, socialism cannot survive, because people tend to make better decisions than the governments that purport to rule over them, and so would not voluntarily give up their possessions in the name of socialism.



Just exactly what is a 'right wing talking point', anyway? I've never seen or heard of one. I have seen whole books dedicated to socialist talking points though.

"[D]o I want my neighbor to suffer or die because of lack in this land of plenty?" Nope. And he does not wish that on me either. That's why we work together to sustain both ourselves and our communities. We do much better for ourselves and those around us than we would ever achieve by sitting at home mooching off those who get up in the morning and work to produce beneficial goods and services for a living.



Did that. Lost my job before I even left college to a new satellite system. Rebooted and lost that one to an international startup. Started all over again and lost that one to a new digital technology. Lost several jobs to lower cost Chinese operations. I have been employed by over 20 different businesses since leaving college 32 years ago. I have been tempted to quit and go on the government plantation exactly zero times. Ever heard the term 'welfare queen'? Look it up.



I'd be very interested in the logic behind that statement. I'm no fan of Mitt Romney, but as far as I know, he has never described anyone as 'scum', at least not publicly. Am I reading that wrong? I think I must be, but I see no typographical error or other way to phrase it.



I would describe that comment as both educated and reasonable. You appear to be seeing things that are not there.



"Socialism...yuck! Evil! Un-American! Destroy it!" Well, yes, socialism is evil and un-American. It is evil because it prompts the enslavement of it's subjects. It is un-American because it goes against every word in the US Constitution, a document written to guard against such evils. I can't speak for others, but I tend to judge the veracity of legislation by comparing it to the basic tenets of the Constitution and if it appears to agree with the powers duly delegated, then it is good. If not, then to borrow a phrase - "Destroy it!". Incidentally, I have never actually tasted socialism, but yeah, I imagine it does taste pretty 'yucky'.

maureenthannon

Dr, Under Obama, many large corproatoins had to flee America because the Left made it too expensive to operate here. Since Trump was elected, companies(and the jobs) have started coming back because Trump is more accepting to businesses. Remember, the SUPER Wealthy love Obama, he got record high contribution dollars from the super wealthy. Remember, Warren Buffett, one of the richest Americans, campaigned for Obama. The Republicqns get most of their votes and contributions from the middle class. The donations to the Republicans are mostly $10&$20., so they have to get many to compete. Excet for the multimilloinaire Trump, who paid for much of his own campaign. Trump decided not to take the $400,000 salary as POUS, he knew the country needed the money more than he did.Has any other POUS ever worked without the salary? Obama could haed if he wanted to, he's a multimillionaire, and so is Michelle.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

George Washington, for sure. Fact is, the President is obliged to take a salary, and George Washington took $1. No doubt Trump will find a similar circumstance.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Estimates Of Socialist Regime Induced Deaths Of The 20th Century Alone
From The Reasons Above, Are OVER 120Million Peacetime Deaths

Please Inform Us Of How Many People Died On The Streets Of America From Famine
(0. Ever.)

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Karpenter, the following came from InfoWars. I don't put much faith in that irreputable organization nor Alex Jones himself, but...because you mentioned deaths from American famine, I thought to post it...although lengthy.

Researcher: Famine Killed 7 Million in U.S. During “Great Depression”

Dmitry Lyskov
Pravda
May 22, 2008

Another online scandal has been gathering pace recently. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, deleted an article by a Russian researcher, who wrote about the USA’s losses in the Great Depression of 1932-1933. Indignant bloggers began to actively distribute the article on the Russian part of a popular blog service known as Livejournal. The above-mentioned article triggered a heated debate.

The researcher touched upon quite a hot topic in the article – the estimation of the number of victims of the Great Depression in the USA. The material presented in the article apparently made Wikipedia’s moderators delete the piece from the database of the online encyclopedia.

The researcher, Boris Borisov, in his article titled “The American Famine” estimated the victims of the financial crisis in the US at over seven million people. The researcher also directly compared the US events of 1932-1933 with Holodomor, or Famine, in the USSR during 1932-1933.

In the article, Borisov used the official data of the US Census Bureau. Having revised the number of the US population, birth and date rates, immigration and emigration, the researcher came to conclusion that the United States lost over seven million people during the famine of 1932-1933.

“According to the US statistics, the US lost not less than 8 million 553 thousand people from 1931 to 1940. Afterwards, population growth indices change twice instantly exactly between 1930-1931: the indices drop and stay on the same level for ten years. There can no explanation to this phenomenon found in the extensive text of the report by the US Department of Commerce “Statistical Abstract of the United States,” the author wrote.

The researcher points out the movement of population at this point: “A lot more people left the country than arrived during the 1930s – the difference is estimated at 93,309 people, whereas 2.960,782 people arrived in the country a decade earlier. Well, let’s correct the number of total demographic losses in the USA during the 1930s by 3,054 people.”

Analyzing the period of the Great Depression in the USA, the author notes a remarkable similarity with events taking place in the USSR during the 1930s. He even introduced a new term for the USA – defarming – an analogue to dispossession of wealthy farmers in the Soviet Union. “Few people know about five million American farmers (about a million families) whom banks ousted from them lands because of debts. The US government did not provide them with land, work, social aid, pension – nothing,” the article says.

“Every sixth American farmer was affected by famine. People were forced to leave their homes and go to nowhere without any money and any property. They found themselves in the middle of nowhere enveloped in massive unemployment, famine and gangsterism.”

The then state of affairs in the US society can be seen in Peter Jackson’s movie King Kong. The movie starts with scenes of the Great Depression and tells the story of an actress who did not eat for three days and tried to steal an apple from a street vendor. There is food in the city, but many people had no money to buy it in unemployment-paralyzed New York. People starve in the streets against the background of stores selling a variety of foodstuffs.

At the same time, the US government tried to get rid of redundant foodstuffs, which vendors could not sell. Market rules were observed strictly: unsold goods should always be categorized as redundant and they could not be given away to the poor because it could cause damage to businesses. A variety of methods was used to destroy redundant food. They burnt crops, drowned them in the ocean or plowed 10 million hectares of harvesting fields. “About 6.5 million pigs were killed at that time,” the researcher wrote.

The consequences of those policies were predictable, the author of the article wrote. “Here is what a child recollected about those years: “We changed our usual food for something more available. We used to eat bush leaves instead of cabbage. We ate frogs too. My mother and my older sister died during a year.” (Jack Griffin).”

So-called public works introduced by President Roosevelt became a salvation for a huge number of jobless and landless Americans. However, the salvation was only a phantom, Boris Borisov wrote. The works conducted under the aegis of the Public Works Administration and the Civil Works Administration were about building channels, roads or bridges in remote, wild and dangerous territories. Up to 3.3 million people were involved in those works at a time, whereas the total number of people amounted to 8.5 million, not to count prisoners.

“Conditions and death rate at those works are to be studied separately. A member of public works would make $30, and pay $25 of taxes from this amount. So a person could make only $5 for a month of hard work in malarial swamps.”

The conditions, under which people were working for food, could be compared to Stalin’s GULAG camp.

“The Public Works Administration (PWA) bore a striking resemblance to GULAG. The PWA was chaired by “American Beria,” the Secretary of Interior Affairs, Harold Ickes, who threw about two million people into camps for the unemployed youth,” Borisov wrote. “Harold LeClair Ickes (1874–1952) later interned USA’s ethnic Japanese in concentration camps. The first stage of the operation took only 72 hours (1941-1942).

“In 1940, the US population was supposed to make up at least 141.856 million people upon the preservation of previous demographic trends. As a matter of fact, the USA had the 131.409-strong population in 1940, of which only 3.054 million can be explained with changes in migration dynamics. Thus, 7.394,000 people simply do not exist as of 1940. There are no official arguments to explain the phenomenon,” Boris Borisov wrote.

It is worthy of note that modern-day Russian patriotic historians reject methods of research based on the general estimation of demographic losses. They believe that demographic processes are not linear and depend on a number of factors. Such historians think that victims of communism estimations made on the base of demographic research works by Stephan Kurt and Richard Pipes, which George Bush and Helen Bonner announced at the opening of Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation in Washington, are false.

On the other hand, these methods are widely used in contemporary science of history. Ukrainian historian Stanislav Kulchitsky used the method to calculate the number of victims of the Ukrainian Holodomor (famine), which was subsequently officially recognized. Parliaments of eleven countries that recognized Holodomor use those numbers in their research works. To crown it all, the US Congress and the European Union also use Kulchitsky’s numbers considering the problem.

Larry the Legend Loc: Not hiding in Milton

That's two of us arriving at the same conclusion. Independently of each other. Think he got the message yet?

EconomistDon

Hey Dross, why are you always on the clueless end of things? If someone loses their job, they qualify for unemployment insurance benefits. UI benefits pay their bills until they can find a job again. Do you understand the meaning of insurance? It means that money is paid to the program to insure against a bad outcome, just like fire insurance, car insurance, or life insurance. Unemployment insurance is not a government freebee. It is not socialism.

Furthermore, thanks to Trump, business and jobs are coming back to America. Make America Great Again.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Pravda? I will admit they are as truthful as CNN.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Well the opening disclaimer pretty much sums up my belief in anything put forth by InfoWars, but Karpenter brought up the subject. I suspect the truth is somewhere between "0. Ever." and seven million. Both guesses are likely ridiculous.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Back It Up With Facts,
Not Wild Claims From 'Irreputable' Origins
May Be We Should Ask 'Snopes' ??

This Is Beyond Ridiculous

Your Article Goes On To Explain, By The Writer's Analysis
Population Growth Drop Was Due To Emigration, And Lack Of Immigration
Not Famine, Genocide, Or Any Of The Other Reasons Listed In Our Previous Post

And How Many Former Farmers Died Of Starvation,
None ??
How Many Starved To Death On The Streets Of The Cities Because Dust-Bowl Food Production Was Lost,
None ??
Just Find ONE News Source
Should Be Easy, Because The Only News Orgs. In America Were ABC, CBS, NBC And RKO
And Don't Forget The NY Times...

Is There Anything To Back The Wild Claims Of Population Disappearences
Other Than These Unsubstantiated Claims
Based On Unqualified Analysis From Unreliable Writers ??

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Thous dost protest too much, Karpenter. As clearly suggested, I did not take the article too seriously and posted only to point out that ridiculous claims can be made by either side with suspect beliefs or documentations. Besides, honestly...how often do most on this forum accept anything that didn't fit their particular narrative

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

I Think You Protesteth Too Much
If You Know It's Not True, Why Did You Post It ??
Despite Your Disclaimer, You Seem To Believe It's A Serious Possibility

NAZIs Couldn't Dispose Of All Six Million Jews
But Millions Of Starved To Death Americans Vanished Without Trace Or Notice ??
The NAZIs Should Have Been Over Here Taking Notes !!