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Mar 22, 2017 17:07:57   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
payne1000 wrote:
The "smoking gun" photo is the North Tower. There wasn't much loose cladding there. There wasn't much fire either. Jet fuel burns out very quickly, doesn't it?
Yeah, JetA burns fairly fast, but thousands of tons of office contents do not.

payne1000 wrote:
Working to expose the truth about criminal behavior is not hatred. It's a call for justice. Covering up the crimes of mass murderers is unforgivable. Nothing could dishonor those killed by the 9/11 false flag operation more than what you are doing while hiding behind cowardly anonymity. I don't hide behind anything.
Yeah, you do. You are hiding behind a humongous body of lies.


payne wrote:
My name is Larry Payne. This is my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/larry.payne.3348
OK. So what? Lots of people are named Larry Payne.

Fire Engineering: WTC Construction and Collapse Factors

MIT: 9/11 - The Fires

The Thermodynamics of 9/11

During my career as a firefighter, fire equipment engineer, and acting captain, we fought some extremely tough fires. Our of control fire burning inside buildings--residential homes to commercial buildings--is unpredictable, fire conditions can change in seconds, temperatures can change quickly depending on many factors, dangerous conditions can develop in a matter of minutes (such as back draft and flash over conditions). The toughest fires to fight are basement fires--you have to attack down into them rather than come in on the flanks or from below. However, with all my experience in firefighting, we never encountered anything close to what FDNY faced on 9/11. From the New York chiefs on down, they knew almost immediately (Palmer's report from the 78th floor skylobby notwithstanding) that fighting the fires was impossible. It quickly became a rescue mission.

I know precisely how you, payne, will respond to this, so don't waste your time.









Reply
Mar 22, 2017 17:33:01   #
payne1000
 
emarine wrote:
How can you say that tube type construction is unsafe?... you have claimed it took anything from mini nukes to nano thermite to bring the towers down not to mention the 767's... what do you expect?... Towers that can duck under aircraft putz... your argument is wavering all over the place... try and focus on one thing at a time ... the NIST report was funded to find out why the towers failed before the fire rating & if there were any inherent design flaws to improve construction safety... you will find any recommended improvements in the new WTC tower like a reinforced concrete core instead of sheet rock... the NIST report was not about who to blame...that's your job putz & you suck at it...
How can you say that tube type construction is uns... (show quote)


Those who refer to the construction as tube type are the ones who are claiming it to be unsafe. You belong to that group.
". . . the NIST Report was funded to find out why the towers failed before the fire rating"? What's that supposed to mean? Before what fire rating?
You fail to say whether the other three skyscrapers should be condemned since they have a similar construction to the Twin Towers.
Since it's been 16 years and they haven't been torn down, I guess the construction method is pretty sound.
Here are some of those to blame. As far as I know they are all still walking free even though they were involved in mass murder.



Reply
Mar 22, 2017 18:31:42   #
emarine
 
payne1000 wrote:
Those who refer to the construction as tube type are the ones who are claiming it to be unsafe. You belong to that group.
". . . the NIST Report was funded to find out why the towers failed before the fire rating"? What's that supposed to mean? Before what fire rating?
You fail to say whether the other three skyscrapers should be condemned since they have a similar construction to the Twin Towers.
Since it's been 16 years and they haven't been torn down, I guess the construction method is pretty sound.
Here are some of those to blame. As far as I know they are all still walking free even though they were involved in mass murder.
Those who refer to the construction as tube type a... (show quote)



Sounds like you have revised tube design... so putz what do you call it?... PVC pipe in pipe?... How can you not know about the fire rating if you read the NIST report?... to assume a structure is aircraft proof upon design is somewhat unrealistic until you have real data to work with... that is unless you're a troofer hunting for the perps... then it's obvious that Zionists did it in their plan to takeover the planet...so am I close putz?

Reply
 
 
Mar 22, 2017 19:00:30   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
payne1000 wrote:
Not wanting to reveal your identity is not a valid excuse.
I have many reasons why I don't want to reveal my identity on this forum, none of them are excuses.

payne1000 wrote:
Your activities on this forum suggest that you're a shill covering up for mass murderers.
By showing who you are in real life, you could provide evidence that you are not a shill. By continuously refusing to identify yourself, you're admitting that you are a shill.
What do your activities on this forum suggest about you?

By revealing your name, what sort of creature are you?

Does exposing your identity make you some kind of up-standing know-it-all?

Are you now so perfect that you are irreproachable?

Are you such an august intellectual that you have a monopoly on intelligence?

Does your self-exaltation put you above all other human beings?

Does your self-proclaimed preeminence elevate you above that ever achieved by any human being?

Have you achieved omniscience?

How were you able to do that, payne? By putting everyone else down? By accusing everyone of lying who disagrees with you?

paynbe1000 wrote:
The Smoking Gun photo proves Dutch is a liar. It also proves that Muslims didn't attack us on 9/11. That is why the war on Muslims is fake. It has always been based on lies.
How exactly does the smoking gun photo prove Dutch is a liar?

How does it prove that Muslims were not involved?

How does it prove that Islam's war on the world is fake?

Islam's Religious War with Everyone

Thomas Jefferson & Radical Islam's War on the West

And you thought Islam's war against the West didn't get started until 9/11? Think again.

.











Reply
Mar 22, 2017 19:24:23   #
payne1000
 
emarine wrote:
Sounds like you have revised tube design... so putz what do you call it?... PVC pipe in pipe?... How can you not know about the fire rating if you read the NIST report?... to assume a structure is aircraft proof upon design is somewhat unrealistic until you have real data to work with... that is unless you're a troofer hunting for the perps... then it's obvious that Zionists did it in their plan to takeover the planet...so am I close putz?


Close to what . . . the all-time record for babbling?
The fire rating had nothing to do with the collapse.
The fires didn't burn hot enough or long enough in
any of the three towers to cause total collapse or even partial collapse.

Reply
Mar 22, 2017 19:28:14   #
payne1000
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
How exactly does the smoking gun photo prove Dutch is a liar?

How does it prove that Muslims were not involved?

How does it prove that Islam's war on the world is fake?

Islam's Religious War with Everyone

Thomas Jefferson & Radical Islam's War on the West

And you thought Islam's war against the West didn't get started until 9/11? Think again.

.
How exactly does the smoking gun photo prove Dutch... (show quote)


Can you share some of those many reasons why you won't reveal your identity?
The first one on the list must be that you are a Zionist shill and propagandist.
Revealing your identity would expose what you are to everyone.

Reply
Mar 22, 2017 19:57:06   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
payne1000 wrote:
Those who refer to the construction as tube type are the ones who are claiming it to be unsafe. You belong to that group.
". . . the NIST Report was funded to find out why the towers failed before the fire rating"? What's that supposed to mean? Before what fire rating?
You fail to say whether the other three skyscrapers should be condemned since they have a similar construction to the Twin Towers.
Since it's been 16 years and they haven't been torn down, I guess the construction method is pretty sound.
Here are some of those to blame. As far as I know they are all still walking free even though they were involved in mass murder.
Those who refer to the construction as tube type a... (show quote)
The WTC towers were never condemned, however, following the tragedy on 9/11, forensics investigations revealed construction flaws that were later addressed by civil engineers, structural engineers, fire safety engineers, and city, county and state building and construction departments.

WTC's faulty design: the real scandal

Skyscraper forum: World Trade Center Construction Flaws Revisited

Twin Towers Forensic Investigation Helps Revise Building Codes, Despite Critics

The three skyscrapers you are attempting to use as an excuse for your lies--Standard Oil Bldg, John Hancock Building, and Sears Tower (now the Willis Tower)--are probably not on the Islamic Jihad target list. I'm sure the mullah's leading the global Islamic Jihad are well beyond plans to do another 9/11, although you never know what those subhuman cockroaches are up to. Thanks to Obama and mashed potato face Kerry, the next big attack could be nuclear. However, I have no doubt that if a fully loaded jetliner flew at full speed into any one of these three buildings, we'd see a repeat of 9/11.

They had some problems during construction of the Standard Oil building:

During construction, Aon Center was sheathed with 43,000 columns of Italian Carrara marble, which made the building the world's tallest marble-clad skyscraper. There was a bit of trial and error during the build-out. The marble was thinner than what was previously attempted in cladding a building; a 350-pound slab broke off the building on Christmas Day 1973, piercing the roof of the Prudential Center. An inspection of the marble in 1985 later revealed significant cracks and bowing in the cladding. The marble was replaced with white granite between 1990 and 1992, resulting in its current look.

Reply
 
 
Mar 22, 2017 19:57:40   #
emarine
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
How exactly does the smoking gun photo prove Dutch is a liar?

How does it prove that Muslims were not involved?

How does it prove that Islam's war on the world is fake?

Islam's Religious War with Everyone

Thomas Jefferson & Radical Islam's War on the West

And you thought Islam's war against the West didn't get started until 9/11? Think again.

.
How exactly does the smoking gun photo prove Dutch... (show quote)




http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/12/islamic_fascism_the_nazi_connection.html

Reply
Mar 22, 2017 19:59:10   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
payne1000 wrote:
Can you share some of those many reasons why you won't reveal your identity?
The first one on the list must be that you are a Zionist shill and propagandist.
Revealing your identity would expose what you are to everyone.
The first reason on my list is YOU. You're incessant whining about this is childish, and no one here owes you any favors.

Reply
Mar 22, 2017 20:05:34   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
payne1000 wrote:
Close to what . . . the all-time record for babbling?
The fire rating had nothing to do with the collapse.
The fires didn't burn hot enough or long enough in
any of the three towers to cause total collapse or even partial collapse.
Real human beings beg to differ. If you ever intend to establish any credibility whatsoever, the first thing you need to do is realize that the fires cannot be divorced from the massive structural damage due to high speed jetliner impacts. The two combined are why the towers collapsed.

Reply
Mar 22, 2017 20:44:38   #
emarine
 
payne1000 wrote:
Close to what . . . the all-time record for babbling?
The fire rating had nothing to do with the collapse.
The fires didn't burn hot enough or long enough in
any of the three towers to cause total collapse or even partial collapse.



You claim to not know what the fire rating is all about so you are babbling ... seems that's all you do... for someone without one shred of evidence of chemical explosive demolition on 911 except a smoking stupid photo cherry picked in time you present no real argument... why is it that in all the chemical explosive demolition videos you can hear many explosions before the building starts to move & nothing on 911?... why is it when a higher grade of explosive is used in a controlled demo they wrap the floors where the explosives are loaded?...why are the pressure squibs observed on 911 the same speed as the rate of collapse & not faster than the speed of sound a characteristic of a chemical detonation?... what's up putz have you no ears?

Reply
 
 
Mar 22, 2017 20:48:31   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
emarine wrote:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/12/islamic_fascism_the_nazi_connection.html
Yeah, I think I read that before. Good article. Another point: Sayyid Qutb was an Egyptian journalist and teacher who came to the US in 1948. His objective was to see for himself what America was all about. His two year sojourn here thoroughly radicalized him. He hated America. In 1951, he went back to Egypt with the mission of purifying Islam and setting it back on course for world domination.

A Lesson in Hate

The core problem with the United States, for Qutb, was not something Americans did, but simply what America was—“the New World...is spellbinding.” It was more than a land of pleasures without limit. In America, unlike in Egypt, dreams could come true. Qutb understood the danger this posed: America’s dazzle had the power to blind people to the real zenith of civilization, which for Qutb began with Muhammad in the seventh century and reached its apex in the Middle Ages, carried triumphantly by Muslim armies.

Sayyid Qutb cut short his stay in America and returned to Egypt in 1951 after the assassination of Hassan al-Banna, founder of the nationalist, religious and militant movement known as the Muslim Brotherhood. Over the next decade and a half, often writing from prison, Qutb refined a violent political theology from the raw anti-modernism of his American interlude. Virtually the entire modern world, Qutb theorized, is jahiliyya, that barbarous state that existed before Muhammad. Only the strict, unchanging law of the prophet can redeem this uncivilized condition. Nearly a millennium of history became, to the radicalized Qutb, an offense wrought by the violence of jahili “Crusaders” and the supposed perfidy of the Jews. And Muslim leaders allied with the West were no better than the Crusaders themselves. Therefore, Qutb called all true Muslims to jihad, or Holy War, against jahiliyya—which is to say, against modernity, which America so powerfully represents.

This philosophy led to Qutb’s execution in 1966. Proud to the end, he refused to accept the secular Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser’s offer of mercy in exchange for Qutb’s repudiation of his jihad. Nasser may have silenced a critic, but the martyrdom of Sayyid Qutb accelerated his movement. The same year the philosopher was hanged, according to journalist Lawrence Wright, the teenage al-Zawahiri formed his first violent cell, dedicated to the overthrow of the Egyptian government and the creation of an Islamist state. Meanwhile, Qutb’s brother Muhammad went into exile in Saudi Arabia, where he taught at King Abdul Aziz University. One of his students, an heir to the country’s largest construction fortune, was Osama bin Laden.


Osama bin Laden found Qutb's writings (The America I Knew, Milestones, and In the Shadow of the Qu'ran) highly inspirational. Along with US support of Israel and the presence of US forces remaining in Saudi Arabia following the first Gulf War, Qutb's radical philosophy played a significant role in radicalizing bin Laden and motivated him to fight with the Mujaheddin in A-stan against the Soviets, and later in his founding of Al Qaeda. Mohammed Atta also was inspired by Qutb's writings, and his martyrdom.

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Mar 23, 2017 08:42:18   #
payne1000
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Real human beings beg to differ. If you ever intend to establish any credibility whatsoever, the first thing you need to do is realize that the fires cannot be divorced from the massive structural damage due to high speed jetliner impacts. The two combined are why the towers collapsed.


Once again, your theory is based on the false assumption that WTC7 did not fall just like a classic controlled demolition.
falsus en unum, falsis en omnibus.

Reply
Mar 23, 2017 08:46:52   #
payne1000
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
The first reason on my list is YOU. You're incessant whining about this is childish, and no one here owes you any favors.


I don't whine.
You whine about my requesting your identity.
So far you have supplied zero valid reasons for hiding your identity.
It's obvious that supplying that information would reveal you to be a Zionist shill.
The same goes for your brother-in-crime, emarine.

Reply
Mar 23, 2017 08:55:46   #
payne1000
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
The WTC towers were never condemned, however, following the tragedy on 9/11, forensics investigations revealed construction flaws that were later addressed by civil engineers, structural engineers, fire safety engineers, and city, county and state building and construction departments.

WTC's faulty design: the real scandal

Skyscraper forum: World Trade Center Construction Flaws Revisited

Twin Towers Forensic Investigation Helps Revise Building Codes, Despite Critics

The three skyscrapers you are attempting to use as an excuse for your lies--Standard Oil Bldg, John Hancock Building, and Sears Tower (now the Willis Tower)--are probably not on the Islamic Jihad target list. I'm sure the mullah's leading the global Islamic Jihad are well beyond plans to do another 9/11, although you never know what those subhuman cockroaches are up to. Thanks to Obama and mashed potato face Kerry, the next big attack could be nuclear. However, I have no doubt that if a fully loaded jetliner flew at full speed into any one of these three buildings, we'd see a repeat of 9/11.

They had some problems during construction of the Standard Oil building:

During construction, Aon Center was sheathed with 43,000 columns of Italian Carrara marble, which made the building the world's tallest marble-clad skyscraper. There was a bit of trial and error during the build-out. The marble was thinner than what was previously attempted in cladding a building; a 350-pound slab broke off the building on Christmas Day 1973, piercing the roof of the Prudential Center. An inspection of the marble in 1985 later revealed significant cracks and bowing in the cladding. The marble was replaced with white granite between 1990 and 1992, resulting in its current look.
The WTC towers were never condemned, however, foll... (show quote)


Did you read this excerpt contained in your first link?

" BILL MANNING, FIRE ENGINEERING MAGAZINE - Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the Happyland Social Club Fire? Did they cast aside the pressure-regulating valves at the Meridian Plaza Fire? Of course not. But essentially, that's what they're doing at the World Trade Center.
For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car. . .
I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall. Hoping beyond hope, I have called experts to ask if the towers were the only high-rise buildings in America of lightweight, center-core construction. No such luck. I made other calls asking if these were the only buildings in America with light-density, sprayed-on fireproofing. Again, no luck - they were two of thousands that fit the description. . .

Fire Engineering has good reason to believe that the "official investigation" blessed by FEMA and run by the American Society of Civil Engineers is a half-baked farce that may already have been commandeered by political forces whose primary interests, to put it mildly, lie far afield of full disclosure. . .

As things now stand and if they continue in such fashion, the investigation into the World Trade Center fire and collapse will amount to paper- and computer-generated hypotheticals. However, respected members of the fire protection engineering community are beginning to raise red flags, and a resonating theory has emerged: The structural damage from the planes and the explosive ignition of jet fuel in themselves were not enough to bring down the towers. Rather, theory has it, the subsequent contents fires attacking the questionably fireproofed lightweight trusses and load-bearing columns directly caused the collapses in an alarmingly short time. . .
The builders and owners of the World Trade Center property, the Port Authority of New York-New Jersey, a governmental agency that operates in an accountability vacuum beyond the reach of local fire and building codes, has denied charges that the buildings' fire protection or construction components were substandard but has refused to cooperate with requests for documentation supporting its contentions . . . Clearly, there are burning questions that need answers. Based on the incident's magnitude alone, a full-throttle, fully resourced, forensic investigation is imperative. More important, from a moral standpoint, for the safety of present and future generations who live and work in tall buildings-and for firefighters, always first in and last out-the lessons about the buildings' design and behavior in this extraordinary event must be learned and applied in the real world. To treat the September 11 incident any differently would be the height of stupidity and ignorance. The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately. The federal government must scrap the current setup and commission a fully resourced blue ribbon panel to conduct a clean and thorough investigation of the fire and collapse, leaving no stones unturned."


Manning contradicts just about everything you cover-up agents have been posting.

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