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I Have a Serious Question about the Affordable Care Act
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Jan 14, 2017 15:45:15   #
Randy131 Loc: Florida
 
You're correct, and that is what we're complaining about to the liberal Quakerwoman, that wants a single payer system, run by the federal government, exactly what the VA actually does, and is the cause of why so many of our vets have died while waiting for medical attention under Obama and the Democrats.

Everything that our federal government runs, it does it at least 50% less efficient and cost effective than does the private sector. Social Security, everyone agrees, is going bankrupt in 2020 because of the way the federal government has run it, and the Republicans want to privatize it so it could be run to last forever, as it was meant to be when it was passed mainly by the Democrats, but they have robbed from it and has it on it's last legs, actually the federal government has destroyed it. If the private sector did take it over, then the American people would have it for much longer than just 2020, when it is scheduled to go bankrupt.

Back in the 40s, 50, and 60's medical care was affordable for all Americans, but late in the 60's Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats came up with their scam of the 'Great Society' and instituted Medicaid, which the federal government's incursion into the medical field drove up the medical care costs for all Americans. Later the Democrats also instituted Medicare, which again drove up the cost of medical care for all Americans. Then Obama and the Democrats, thinking they were on a roll in the medical care field, forced Obamacare down the American people's throats, which has now made medical care completely unaffordable for all but the rich, the middleclass and poor can't afford to use it. With the tremendously high deductibles and copays, the American people don't even get a chance to use what now has gone up in basic costs so much that they can't afford it either, and even the middleclass can no longer afford it, nor the poor, even when given the federal government's stipend.

Ronald Reagan was completely correct, the worst words any American can hear is, "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." The best thing the federal government can do is stay out of the American people's way, and allow our free enterprise to work. They really don't need to replace Obamacare with another huge monstrosity of a medical care law, but just pass many small laws that will keep healthcare affordable, in the hands of the people and their doctors, and government away from it so it won't become what Obamacare has made it today.



Larry the Legend wrote:
'Was'. Was far superior. Then someone came along and made it 'Affordable'. Now it's a complete disaster.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 15:48:21   #
CounterRevolutionary
 
cSc61 wrote:
When politicians and media pundits on television discuss what's to become of Obamacare, the phase I keep hearing over and over is "repeal & replace." "Obamacare must be repealed & replaced ASAP!" The biggest argument these days seem to be around the 'replace' portion. What will Republicans replace the Affordable Care Act with ... and, how can they repeal Obamacare before they have something to replace it with.

Here's my question. Why does it need to be replaced with anything. When did repeal & replace become this nation's ONLY option. Why not just repeal it and go back to where we were 8 years ago. I don't remember the country clamoring after the government to take over our healthcare before Obama's lackeys came to power in 2009. Yes, there were issues regarding a small percentage of citizens who were uninsured, and an even smaller fraction of those who found themselves un-insurable. This issue needs to be studied to determine how best to help this 5-7% of the population. But when did we as a nation just settle on the fact that the Government must control and govern the healthcare of 350 million Americans in order to provide a safety net for the few?

Why not just repeal it - period. Go back to square one -- pre-2009 -- and fix what needed mending before the socialist came to power and stole one-seventh our nations GDP out from under us. Seems we're being brainwashed yet again. This time we're being told we can't repeal Obamacare before we have something to replace it with. They want everyone repeating the same phrase over and over instead of asking the question, WHY!? Why does the government need to be involved at all?

I'll tell you why ... because they created yet another entitlement program ... a program that has become unmanageable, unsustainable, and nearly impossible to back out of. And there isn't a single politician, Republican or Democrat, who wants to eliminate an entitlement program that garners them votes, power, and allows them control another layer of our lives.

I feel like a lone voice in the wilderness but I say "REPEAL ONLY - REPLACE WITH NOTHING!"

I'd like to hear from "repeal & replace" advocates why I'm wrong.
When politicians and media pundits on television d... (show quote)


cSc61 asked: "Here's my question. Why does it need to be replaced with anything. When did repeal & replace become this nation's ONLY option. Why not just repeal it and go back to where we were 8 years ago."

There is a simple answer. 9 years ago, the health insurance industry was totally regulated by the government under the 1945 McCarran-Ferguson Act, quarantining us citizens state by state, trapped to our provider-employer, limiting our choice across all state lines for a better portable and affordable tailored policy to our personal needs.

The most affordable policy for a self-employed 60 year old citizen in California with good health was $321/month with a $10,000 deductible. The very same policy with the same insurance company in Kentucky was $97/month. The argument that a broader base population would cut the risk and make policies cheaper was flat out wrong. The problem was that fat-cat Democrat politicians regulating health insurance in California were reaping huge campaign contributions in exchange for fixing health insurance policies artificially broad and high in costs. Protecting the consumer was the alibi the State legislature and Insurance Commissioner advanced. These fools need be prosecuted under the RICO laws for racketeering.

The stupid socialist Democrats that are begging for the Public Option, more government regulation, are the most brain-dead lemmings on the planet. We already have a safety net for the poor in Medicaid; expand it to the poor who are chronically ill through federal block grants to the States. There is no need to put an entire nation on welfare because of the small percentage of handicapped people who cannot take care of themselves. It's depriving the poor of the money they need because we are spreading the money too thinly.

"Welfare for the masses is the alibi of tyrants," quote Albert Camus.

Open up Interstate Commerce. Overthrow the McCarran-Ferguson Act. Let free markets work raising quality in care and driving costs down.
Get this wretched fascist government out of our lives.

More people are maimed and crippled or killed every year in auto accidents than all the cancer patients combined, not to mention the cost of property damage and automobile repairs. Yet Auto policies are portable across all state lines and virtually 1/10th the cost of health insurance.
Why?

The Republicans have advanced HR 3121, the American Health Care Reform Act, that answers all of our problems.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 16:44:34   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
badbob85037 wrote:
It shouldn't be replaced it should be ended by the court cause no matter how you read it no where in the Constitution does it say government controls our health.

There's nothing in the ACA that say government controls our health either so your point is moot.

badbob85037 wrote:

The Constitution give the federal government only 30 things to do,

Let me ask you a question... If the Constitution only gives the government 30 things to do, why do we have thousands of federal laws on the books and why do we elect 435 people to make even more each year? Where in those 30 things listed in the Constitution do you see anything about protecting people from murder or rape? Where do you see anything ANYWHERE in the Constitution that protect children from sexual exploitation?

There's one huge problem with the half-baked argument that you are blindly subscribing to... it ignores the fact that one of the powers granted to federal government by the U.S.Constitution is the power to make laws. The ONLY limits to what these laws can be are found in the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments of which none of them pose ANY restriction regarding health care.

It's a simple-minded trick for simple-minded people to suggest that if something isn't explicitly stated in the Constitution it means the government can't make laws about it. Don't be that simple-minded fool. Learn what the Constitution means.

badbob85037 wrote:

When over 20 million cross your border if that isn't an invasion then what is.

When an uninvited army of soldiers, tanks and helicopters cross our border you'll know what an invasion is.

There are indeed a number of provisions in the Constitution that empower the government to provide for our common defense but there is nothing in those provisions that identify immigrants as a threat just because you don't like them.

badbob85037 wrote:

When obama was saying the border is safer than it's ever been here in Arizona 40 miles south of the largest nuclear plant in the country is land controlled by Mexican drug cartels not even our law enforcement will enter.

I guess your law enforcement is a bunch of wussies then. Not sure what you want the government to do about that. Should we write a new law that says AZ law enforcement should stop being scared of Mexicans?

badbob85037 wrote:

I'm beginning to think the Constitution isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Since 9/11 our Bill of Rights is all but null and void to protect us from the terrorist boogie man. Any politician that supports or votes for a bill that goes against the Constitution shall be removed, dragged if necessary and will receive justice from a group of citizens

I agree that some of our constitutional rights have been compromised by post-9/11 policies, but that doesn't mean the Constitution itself is compromised... it means policies are in violation. That means that if you aren't happy about these violations the LAST thing you want to do is attack the one thing that MAKES them violations. I've been a critic of these post-9/11 policies since 9/11 happened and I can tell you that most of them have been intentionally hidden from public view or otherwise "justified" through the use of fear mongering. The existence of these policies is not a sign of a weak constitution... it's a sign of a weak people.

badbob85037 wrote:

If the government want to do something for me it should be to leave me alone.

...until someone robs you, rapes your wife, takes your child, murders your friend, damages your property, forces you to work in unsafe conditions for unfair wages, pollutes your water supply or any of the hundreds of things people like you cry to the government about.

badbob85037 wrote:

I don't need their health care

Good, 'cause they don't have any.

badbob85037 wrote:

or them to protect me from some boogie man terrorist. Even if there were terrorist these chumps will do their dirty work on citizens that have been disarmed in California and New York and since these citizens allow some tyrant to convince them to give up their right to protect them self no great loss.

Try breaking into my California home and getting a .45 caliber slug in your gut. Let's see if that educates you about California's gun laws.

badbob85037 wrote:

Every disarmed Libtard they kill is one less vote giving power to a government that only abuses that power.

First of all, terrorists don't target individuals, they target crowds. Secondly most terrorist attacks on record have been in places where guns are prevalent, proving that armed citizens are almost entirely ineffective against terrorism. I am an advocate of the 2nd amendment but I'm not stupid. Guns are a much more effective means of protection in a controlled environment like your home than they are against random attacks in public places. Finally, it's not the liberals that continue to give power to an abusive government. I remember when Bush signed the PATRIOT Act, probably the most significant attack on our rights since Wilson... There was a LOT of opposition from liberals and none from conservatives.

badbob85037 wrote:

This last weekend I was going through some papers and found 9 traffic tickets from speed cameras of the state and a couple from cities in the Phoenix area. I never went to court and never paid a dime on any cause I know my rights but how many billions a year do these cameras steal from ones not knowing their rights?

I've been snagged a couple of times when I was living in NJ by the same sort of thing. I read that some of the cities there were trying to remove the "robocops" because their courts can't handle the volume of citations but they couldn't because it would breech the contracts they signed with the private companies that installed them. I don't know exactly what you think you're "rights" are with regard to speeding but you can't get a citation without breaking a law and after nine of them, I would think a smart person would learn to slow down.

Reply
 
 
Jan 14, 2017 17:21:27   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
straightUp wrote:
I've been snagged a couple of times when I was living in NJ by the same sort of thing. I read that some of the cities there were trying to remove the "robocops" because their courts can't handle the volume of citations but they couldn't because it would breech the contracts they signed with the private companies that installed them. I don't know exactly what you think you're "rights" are with regard to speeding but you can't get a citation without breaking a law and after nine of them, I would think a smart person would learn to slow down.
I've been snagged a couple of times when I was liv... (show quote)


Smug, smarmy, self righteous prick. That is you.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 17:30:31   #
peter11937 Loc: NYS
 
Randy131 wrote:
You're correct, and that is what we're complaining about to the liberal Quakerwoman, that wants a single payer system, run by the federal government, exactly what the VA actually does, and is the cause of why so many of our vets have died while waiting for medical attention under Obama and the Democrats.

Everything that our federal government runs, it does it at least 50% less efficient and cost effective than does the private sector. Social Security, everyone agrees, is going bankrupt in 2020 because of the way the federal government has run it, and the Republicans want to privatize it so it could be run to last forever, as it was meant to be when it was passed mainly by the Democrats, but they have robbed from it and has it on it's last legs, actually the federal government has destroyed it. If the private sector did take it over, then the American people would have it for much longer than just 2020, when it is scheduled to go bankrupt.

Back in the 40s, 50, and 60's medical care was affordable for all Americans, but late in the 60's Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats came up with their scam of the 'Great Society' and instituted Medicaid, which the federal government's incursion into the medical field drove up the medical care costs for all Americans. Later the Democrats also instituted Medicare, which again drove up the cost of medical care for all Americans. Then Obama and the Democrats, thinking they were on a roll in the medical care field, forced Obamacare down the American people's throats, which has now made medical care completely unaffordable for all but the rich, the middleclass and poor can't afford to use it. With the tremendously high deductibles and copays, the American people don't even get a chance to use what now has gone up in basic costs so much that they can't afford it either, and even the middleclass can no longer afford it, nor the poor, even when given the federal government's stipend.

Ronald Reagan was completely correct, the worst words any American can hear is, "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you." The best thing the federal government can do is stay out of the American people's way, and allow our free enterprise to work. They really don't need to replace Obamacare with another huge monstrosity of a medical care law, but just pass many small laws that will keep healthcare affordable, in the hands of the people and their doctors, and government away from it so it won't become what Obamacare has made it today.
You're correct, and that is what we're complaining... (show quote)


I figured out what my SS Fund would be worth had every penny been invested in MMM, IBM, and BK from the time I started paying in at age 14 until now. I'd have, counting dividends reinvested , Employer "contribution" as well as mine, the total current values would be in excess of $5 million. Now this would be mine, and at death, or before, $1million could be passed to my kids tax exempt. Now , if you die with no minor children of spouse, your estate gets $200 plus a bit to burry you. Your family inherits nothing. Government stealing any gift to posterity you might have made.....

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 17:53:49   #
kenjay Loc: Arkansas
 
straightUp wrote:
Interesting idea. Sort of like giving them enough rope to hang themselves. I know people who are going to suffer when/if the ACA is repealed so it's hard to accept this. I'm also familiar enough with the Culture of Ignorance to know that many America idiots are incapable of learning from mistakes. Even if millions of people wind up dying from a lack of healthcare, the few that prefer it that way will always have a scapegoat to offer these incapable people. They will say it's the fault of the Marxists, or the Muslims or, whatever... it really doesn't matter, the point is to maintain ignorance. So you're idea fails to present any advantage as far as persuasion goes, but I do agree with you on a technical standpoint... Repealing the ACA without replacement would be the most effective way to understand the impact.

As far as sweeping the Republicans from office... I refer to my second point... Republican sponsored policies are responsible for almost every problem Republican voters bitch about and yet politicians always find a way (usually by lying) to blame it on Democrats. It's a game played by politicians and they have always been able to count on vast numbers of emotional and illiterate voters to keep it going.

Trump will certainly be a laughing stock for liberal-minded comedians on late night television and more importantly, his election is already spurring massive counter-movements on the ground, but Republican strategy has long relegated the office of the president to a fixture in a house of smoke and mirrors, while actual power emanates from those hidden in the shadows. Nixon was probably the last Republican president to act as a true leader. Reagan was nominated because of his popularity but he didn't lead as much as he followed. In a sense he became a mere spokesman for the agenda that others behind him controlled. GW Bush sticks out because unlike Reagan, he didn't even have the capacity to *act* like a leader. Of course, in his defense, the ulterior motives of the Republican agenda did become much harder to conceal. When you look at the nominations since then, such as Sarah Palin for vice president you can see how the qualifications have more to do with public relations than the capacity to lead. The point I'm making here is that Trump, whether or not he's what the GOP really wanted, is about to be controlled by his party. His own appointees are already promising the party to keep him on a leash so the ability for Trump to "drain the swamp" is doubtful at most.

Repealing the ACA has always been a Republican objective and they have been prompting the Culture of Ignorance into opposition since before it even became a law. Trump's opposition to the ACA is part of his banking on this Culture of Ignorance to get elected. The party will use that to their advantage of course, but if the ACA is indeed repealed, it will be the result of Republican manipulation that Trump himself will have little to do with. People will suffer of course, but once again the Culture of Ignorance will find themselves blaming anything but the repeal for the pains they endure and they will probably vote for more Republican abuse in 2018.

I expect the Republicans will loose ground in 2018 and you're right, repealing the ACA will almost guarantee that, but that's because it will motivate the apathetic half of the moderate citizens that didn't vote in 2016. The Republicans won't be wiped out... ignorance might even give them more votes than they got in 2016, but that 54% that didn't vote in 2016? Yeah, THEY will be the ones to make the change.
Interesting idea. Sort of like giving them enough ... (show quote)

Sounds great if you just switch the parties around. The democrats haven't had a leader since JFK.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 18:13:17   #
Randy131 Loc: Florida
 
How is that not considered robbery, for if any private company would have done what you said has been done to you, every employee of that private company would have been arrested, but the largest crime syndicate in the US is the federal government, protected by immmunity that they afford themselves.



peter11937 wrote:
I figured out what my SS Fund would be worth had every penny been invested in MMM, IBM, and BK from the time I started paying in at age 14 until now. I'd have, counting dividends reinvested , Employer "contribution" as well as mine, the total current values would be in excess of $5 million. Now this would be mine, and at death, or before, $1million could be passed to my kids tax exempt. Now , if you die with no minor children of spouse, your estate gets $200 plus a bit to burry you. Your family inherits nothing. Government stealing any gift to posterity you might have made.....
I figured out what my SS Fund would be worth had ... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Jan 14, 2017 18:52:27   #
Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD
 
straightUp wrote:
I've been snagged a couple of times when I was living in NJ by the same sort of thing. I read that some of the cities there were trying to remove the "robocops" because their courts can't handle the volume of citations but they couldn't because it would breech the contracts they signed with the private companies that installed them. I don't know exactly what you think you're "rights" are with regard to speeding but you can't get a citation without breaking a law and after nine of them, I would think a smart person would learn to slow down.
I've been snagged a couple of times when I was liv... (show quote)


Thank you for your entire post of which the quote is the final paragraph.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 19:11:56   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
archie bunker wrote:
Smug, smarmy, self righteous prick. That is you.


Arch. Perfect definition of him. When's all said and done he's just an asshole. I'm done with the arrogant prick.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 19:26:32   #
peter11937 Loc: NYS
 
Randy131 wrote:
How is that not considered robbery, for if any private company would have done what you said has been done to you, every employee of that private company would have been arrested, but the largest crime syndicate in the US is the federal government, protected by immmunity that they afford themselves.


The SS enabling act made it all perfectly legal. Thank F. D. Roosevelt.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 20:02:52   #
Randy131 Loc: Florida
 
The biggest criminal organization in the USA is the federal government, without a doubt.



peter11937 wrote:
The SS enabling act made it all perfectly legal. Thank F. D. Roosevelt.

Reply
 
 
Jan 14, 2017 20:27:44   #
Onelostdog Loc: Restless Oregon
 
cSc61 wrote:
When politicians and media pundits on television discuss what's to become of Obamacare, the phase I keep hearing over and over is "repeal & replace." "Obamacare must be repealed & replaced ASAP!" The biggest argument these days seem to be around the 'replace' portion. What will Republicans replace the Affordable Care Act with ... and, how can they repeal Obamacare before they have something to replace it with.

Here's my question. Why does it need to be replaced with anything. When did repeal & replace become this nation's ONLY option. Why not just repeal it and go back to where we were 8 years ago. I don't remember the country clamoring after the government to take over our healthcare before Obama's lackeys came to power in 2009. Yes, there were issues regarding a small percentage of citizens who were uninsured, and an even smaller fraction of those who found themselves un-insurable. This issue needs to be studied to determine how best to help this 5-7% of the population. But when did we as a nation just settle on the fact that the Government must control and govern the healthcare of 350 million Americans in order to provide a safety net for the few?

Why not just repeal it - period. Go back to square one -- pre-2009 -- and fix what needed mending before the socialist came to power and stole one-seventh our nations GDP out from under us. Seems we're being brainwashed yet again. This time we're being told we can't repeal Obamacare before we have something to replace it with. They want everyone repeating the same phrase over and over instead of asking the question, WHY!? Why does the government need to be involved at all?

I'll tell you why ... because they created yet another entitlement program ... a program that has become unmanageable, unsustainable, and nearly impossible to back out of. And there isn't a single politician, Republican or Democrat, who wants to eliminate an entitlement program that garners them votes, power, and allows them control another layer of our lives.

I feel like a lone voice in the wilderness but I say "REPEAL ONLY - REPLACE WITH NOTHING!"

I'd like to hear from "repeal & replace" advocates why I'm wrong.
When politicians and media pundits on television d... (show quote)


I think all they had to do that would have made a great improvement would have been to open this stupid ruling of states closure and allow health care (to the disgust of unions) to cross state lines. There was no reason my health care in one state was null and void in an adjoining state. Simple is almost always the best and cheapest way.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 20:48:46   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
Onelostdog wrote:
I think all they had to do that would have made a great improvement would have been to open this stupid ruling of states closure and allow health care (to the disgust of unions) to cross state lines. There was no reason my health care in one state was null and void in an adjoining state. Simple is almost always the best and cheapest way.


Lefties don't think about simple, and pragmatic Dog. They think about what makes them feel good.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 20:56:33   #
Onelostdog Loc: Restless Oregon
 
archie bunker wrote:
Lefties don't think about simple, and pragmatic Dog. They think about what makes them feel good.


So do I Arch every time I'm reloading just waiting for the day to come that the Libs start something again they can't finish.

Reply
Jan 14, 2017 21:21:16   #
archie bunker Loc: Texas
 
Onelostdog wrote:
So do I Arch every time I'm reloading just waiting for the day to come that the Libs start something again they can't finish.


I get pissed at em too. One day, they'll push it too far.

Reply
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