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Today in history
Apr 9, 2017 06:44:47   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Today in 1865, Robert E Lee, who personally opposed slavery, formally surrendered the Army of Northern Virginia to Ulysess S Grant, the husband of a slave owner. Makes you wonder who really won.

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Apr 9, 2017 07:08:29   #
Huck Loc: The Midwest
 
Loki wrote:
Today in 1865, Robert E Lee, who personally opposed slavery, formally surrendered the Army of Northern Virginia to Ulysess S Grant, the husband of a slave owner. Makes you wonder who really won.


Also on this date in 1866 all persons born in the United States were given citizenship - major mistake! Until then citizenship was given only those that were born to American citizens regardless of where they were born. Huck

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Apr 9, 2017 07:25:43   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Huck wrote:
Also on this date in 1866 all persons born in the United States were given citizenship - major mistake! Until then citizenship was given only those that were born to American citizens regardless of where they were born. Huck


I believe you are mistaken in that. If you are referring to the 14th Amendment, it was ratified in 1868. All citizens born in the US are NOT given citizenship. This is a misapprehension on the part of Liberal Hobbit Dancers and their allies.
In Elk v Wilkins 1884, the SCOTUS ruled that John Elk was NOT a citizen of the United States, since he was born to 2 non-citizens. In further support is US v Wong Kim Ark 1898, in which the SCOTUS ruled that Wong Kim Ark WAS a citizen, since he was born to 2 parents who were legally domiciled in this country. The United States Code, at 8 USC 1401 requires that one parent be a citizen or legal resident of the United States. The fiction that anyone born here is an automatic citizen is just that.... a lie.
The confusion about the 14th Amendment seems to stem from the wording that "all persons born or naturalized...."and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." Children born to foreigners in this country illegally are NOT "subject to the jurisdiction."
The author of the 14th Amendment, Senator Jacob Howard of Michigan, stated this very clearly in his comments before the 14th was ratified. He said it was solely to guarantee the full citizenship rights to former slaves and their progeny, and did not include foreigners here illegally or diplomatic personnel.

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Apr 9, 2017 14:59:56   #
Huck Loc: The Midwest
 
Loki wrote:
I believe you are mistaken in that. If you are referring to the 14th Amendment, it was ratified in 1868. All citizens born in the US are NOT given citizenship. This is a misapprehension on the part of Liberal Hobbit Dancers and their allies.
In Elk v Wilkins 1884, the SCOTUS ruled that John Elk was NOT a citizen of the United States, since he was born to 2 non-citizens. In further support is US v Wong Kim Ark 1898, in which the SCOTUS ruled that Wong Kim Ark WAS a citizen, since he was born to 2 parents who were legally domiciled in this country. The United States Code, at 8 USC 1401 requires that one parent be a citizen or legal resident of the United States. The fiction that anyone born here is an automatic citizen is just that.... a lie.
The confusion about the 14th Amendment seems to stem from the wording that "all persons born or naturalized...."and subject to the jurisdiction thereof." Children born to foreigners in this country illegally are NOT "subject to the jurisdiction."
The author of the 14th Amendment, Senator Jacob Howard of Michigan, stated this very clearly in his comments before the 14th was ratified. He said it was solely to guarantee the full citizenship rights to former slaves and their progeny, and did not include foreigners here illegally or diplomatic personnel.
I believe you are mistaken in that. If you are ref... (show quote)


I don't think you can call this Settled Law considering the many debates over Juridiction. Many consider that to mean territorial, more so than sovereignty. If you right or wrong makes little difference until this is settled either by an Ammendment or a Supreme Court ruling. Huck

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Apr 9, 2017 20:43:14   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Huck wrote:
I don't think you can call this Settled Law considering the many debates over Juridiction. Many consider that to mean territorial, more so than sovereignty. If you right or wrong makes little difference until this is settled either by an Ammendment or a Supreme Court ruling. Huck

SCOTUS IS the Supreme Court. There is no jurisdictional dispute, since it is the Supreme Court. These rulings have never been reversed, and the United States Code applies to all US states, and territories. If you are born here to two parents who are here illegally, you are not a citizen. There are only two types of citizens. Born, and naturalized. You are one or the other. In order to be a birthright citizen, you must have one parent who is a US citizen if you are abroad, and one parent who is a citizen or a legal resident if you are on US soil. If you had read the 14th Amendment you would see that section V provides that Congress has the power to modify the Amendment,and it does not require another Amendment.

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Apr 9, 2017 22:50:39   #
Huck Loc: The Midwest
 
Loki wrote:
SCOTUS IS the Supreme Court. There is no jurisdictional dispute, since it is the Supreme Court. These rulings have never been reversed, and the United States Code applies to all US states, and territories. If you are born here to two parents who are here illegally, you are not a citizen. There are only two types of citizens. Born, and naturalized. You are one or the other. In order to be a birthright citizen, you must have one parent who is a US citizen if you are abroad, and one parent who is a citizen or a legal resident if you are on US soil. If you had read the 14th Amendment you would see that section V provides that Congress has the power to modify the Amendment,and it does not require another Amendment.
SCOTUS i IS /i the Supreme Court. There is no ju... (show quote)


Then why don't you just set them straight, because there are millions born here to illegal aliens that have been granted American citizenship.The debate will continue regardless of how you want to interpret the 14th Amendment until it is either repealed, are revisited by the Supreme Court to clarify once and for all who is an American citizen - For now, if you're born here you are an American citizen. Period! Huck

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Apr 10, 2017 04:39:06   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Huck wrote:
Then why don't you just set them straight, because there are millions born here to illegal aliens that have been granted American citizenship.The debate will continue regardless of how you want to interpret the 14th Amendment until it is either repealed, are revisited by the Supreme Court to clarify once and for all who is an American citizen - For now, if you're born here you are an American citizen. Period! Huck


There has been no Supreme Court decision, OR US law passed that gives birthright citizenship to children of illegals. About 70% of those children have citizenship because their parents were here legally when they were born. It does not matter if you are illegal later because of an expired Visa, or whatever. There is also a great deal of fraud going on with this. As I said, when the 14th Amendment was in the process of being ratified, the author said specifically that it was not meant to apply to children born to people here illegally, or to those of diplomatic personnel. The Supreme Court ruling in 1885 Elk v Wilkins bears this out. John Elk was born in this country to two parents who were NOT citizens. As Indians, they were considered non-citizens. (Many Indians did not receive citizenship until the Indian Citizenship Act of 1925.) This ruling was made nearly 2 decades AFTER the 14th was ratified. Wong Kim Ark was ruled a citizen because his parents were here legally when he was born. Bureaucrats and Liberal politicians ignoring a law does not make that law invalid.
For some reason, children born to illegals are considered citizens until it is proven otherwise. Any drivel about "automatic citizenship to anyone born here" is either ignorance or deliberate misinformation.

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