ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

Everybody, every day, is faced with making economic decisions relating to how your income becomes your expenditures. Individually, we know that we cannot afford everything we want. We must prioritize whether to replace an aging washing machine, or use those funds to buy a wide screen TV, a downpayment on a new car, or refilling a doctor's prescription.

On the macro level, our elected leaders need to make those same economic decisions on such things as military expenditures, infrastructure spending, social services, etc.

In the case of the individual in the first example, if he or she elects to use his or her discretionary money on a downpayment for a new car instead of the doctor's prescription, well, we all see the potential risk in that decision.

On a macro level, our political leaders are faced with those same decisions. Consider the decisions that they make the next time budget talks begin, and they decide on the economic priorities of our nations needs. But while you do so, consider the following:

#1 According to the American Road and Transportation Builders Association, nearly 56,000 bridges in the United States are currently “structurally deficient”. What makes that number even more chilling is the fact that vehicles cross those bridges a total of 185 million times a day.

#2 More than one out of every four bridges in the United States is more than 50 years old and “have never had major reconstruction work”.

#3 America does not have a single airport that is considered to be in the top 25 in the world.

#4 The average age of America’s dams is now 52 years.

#5 Not too long ago, the American Society of Civil Engineers gave the condition of America’s dams a “D” grade.

#6 Overall, the American Society of Civil Engineers said that the condition of America’s infrastructure as a whole only gets a “D+” grade.

#7 Congestion on our highways costs Americans approximately 101 billion dollars a year in wasted fuel and time.

#8 According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, over two-thirds of our roads are “in dire need of repair or upgrades”.

#9 In order to completely fix all of our roads and bridges, it would take approximately 808 billion dollars.

#10 Federal spending on infrastructure has decreased by 9 percent over the past decade.

#11 According to Bloomberg, it is being projected “that by 2025, shortfalls in infrastructure investment will subtract as much as $3.9 trillion from U.S. gross domestic product.”

All of us as Americans owe it to ourselves, our family, and our children to become aware and involved in letting our elected representatives know about our spending priorities,.... and to hold them accountable at election time.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Much of the ballyhooed crumbling infrastructure is due to the basic fact that those roads, dams and bridges were built as government projects & were not driven by market forces. Many of them were constructed as part of make work porjects under FDR, such as the TVA. They were emulated by Hitler and drove thousands of people out of ancestral homes in the name of progress & broke up thriving neighborhoods.

Many of the dams altered the flora and fauna of their regions often for the worse.

The Interstate system was started under Eisenhower and reuslted in roads going to absolutely nowhere.

Sell all of them off to private management and see how fast the useless projects get destroyed and replaced with projects of economic utility.

moldyoldy

TVA was 1933, those sub-standard projects, as you call them, have held together for a long time. We need the same type of project today. It would provide jobs, increased tax base, and a safer country. Our politicians get bought by the military industrial complex as Ike tried to warn us. We spend money on new weapons whether we need them or not, and whether they actually work or not. Investing in the country makes more sense.

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

crazylibertarian wrote:
Much of the ballyhooed crumbling infrastructure is... (show quote)
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While I share your libertarian views lets focus on two issues here. 1) How the federal government spends your tax dollars, and on what projects, and 2) Public safety issues.

While you may question if a bridge or dam should have been initially built by Rosevelt in the 1930's, that is one discussion. But the fact is that those dams and bridges now exist, are used by the public, and their current conditions represents a clear danger to the public.

So while I am all for making the libertarian argument for any new projects, we must deal in the here and now for existing projects, because public safety is at risk. Government created this problem and now must fix it. If it can be best be done by privatization, we can have that discussion.

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

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I for one, support your argument.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

I never wrote that they were substandard. They were and are of dubious economic utilty and would never have been built without the force of government. Note moldyoldy, many roads, bridges and dams have been built without government mandate.

You should heed Mark Twain's adage; better to say nothing and look stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. You have no concept of libertarian arguments. Hitler got his idea for the Youth Corps froms from FDR's CCC and other agencies, FYI.

moldyoldy

You should follow Twain's advice. Libertarians want government out of everything. What kind of country would we have with free wheeling libertarians all doing their own thing without concern for their fellow man? People can't be trusted to do the right thing, government helps when it is not corrupted. We have a lot of toll roads in Ca. Built by the state then turned over to business for maintenance. The business makes a killing, while doing little. That is your way.

ACP45 Loc: Rhode Island

Crazy libertarian said: I never wrote that they were substandard. They were and are of dubious economic utilty and would never have been built without the force of government. Note moldyoldy, many roads, bridges and dams have been built without government mandate.
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Correct, you never said that bridges and dams were in disrepair and in need of infrastructure spending to fix them. I said that, and I stand by it. I said it was a safety issue for the public, and since government built them, and people now use them, it's governments responsibility to fix them and keep the public safe.

If you doubt that this is a serious issue, then I will point you to these articles.

http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/report-finds-thousands-us-bridges-dangerous-need-repair

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-infrastructure-idUSTRE72T4J920110330

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/06/news/economy/dams/index.htm

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

People can't be trusted to do the right thing, government helps when it is not corrupted? Who the hell constitutes the government but peole who make errors just like the rest of us but I am sure you exclude yourself. Problem is when government makes a mistake it becomes part of the structure. It doesn't go away. And, FYI, there is no such thing as government wthout corruption which is precisely why it should be kept as small as possible.

moldyoldy

Government has oversight, business is profit driven. Can you imagine Ca. freeways built without considering the possibility of earthquakes? We saw that a couple of years ago, I think in India, where they used substandard cement, and the buildings collapsed, killing many.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

The profit drive is the most effective way to wean out poor performance. Substandard cement in an Indian building collapse? Was it used under government oversight? It was government that allowed those California roads to be built.

You THINK it happened in India? Yet you cite it as some example. By the rules of debate, you just lost on the two points you introduced.

Kickaha Loc: Nebraska

It would be nice to see bills like the one that established the interstate highway system. It was only 5 pages long everyone had time to read it and understand it. As opposed to the ACA, 2000 pages of vagueness and double speak. By the way, the interstate highway system was constructed for military readiness as a way of rapidly moving troops and materials across the country in a time of war. Also 1 mile in 5 is to be straight so that it could be used as a landing strip. Who is responsible for the maintenance of the dams and bridges? In New Orleans, the levies that failed were supposed to be maintained locally. The money got diverted elsewhere rather than being used to maintain the levies.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

That highwas system can also be used by invaders! On paper it sounds good but many people were displaced by its construction. Neighborhoods were sliced in half by it. I submit the vast majority of it was of very dubious economic necessity.

Kickaha Loc: Nebraska

It wasn't intended to be an economic necessity. Like most government projects it had good intentions but since the original plan, it seems every politician wants a piece of the pie.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Your first sentence proves my point.