straightUp Loc: California

Dumb-ass... Roe v Wade is NOT a law.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Twice you and I have engaged in this same discussion and twice this has been your response; blame pro-life advocates. I found it so utterly absurd and disgusting that it, and you, were unworthy of my response. That someone who obviously has some degree of grey matter between his ears can come to the conclusion you have is a sure and certain indicator of the decline of our God given humanity. You are a grand specimen of a moral relativist incapable of taking an absolutist philosophy on the murder of children. It might interest you to know that prior to 1928 all Christian faiths were opposed to artificial birth control. A moot point today. The number of abortions performed between two nations, China and the USA exceeds the total population of the USA. Like it or not, agree with it or not, believe it or not, abortion is the greatest holocaust in the history of humanity and you want to blame pro-life supporters. Are you a man of faith? If so, I will further explain the Truth to you from that perspective which, I should add, is the only understanding I have.

straightUp Loc: California

I appreciate the finer point you put on the issue, but a court decision is not a law of any sort... it's a legal precedent, which means it can be ignored by a judge with a different opinion... you can't do that with a law.

These people are VERY confused by all of this... Somehow they think Roe v Wade is an actual federal law that protects abortion. I think it would serve all of us if there was some way to sock puppet the message to these people that there is no federal law that says a state can't prohibit abortion. This is why it's up to the people of any such state to appeal to the federal courts in the premise that the state is overstepping it's constitutional bounds and in every such case so far the Roe v Wade precedent was upheld. Not because of a federal law, but because federal judges in each and every case have not been able to justify the prohibition.

This is why I try to remind people that the ONLY laws in question are the prohibition laws that the so-called "pro-life" advocates keep pushing for without success.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Who is preparing to leave office that doubled the debt in his tenure? Who first started borrowing (stealing) the social security money and left the IOUs? Your leftists slip is showing better hike it up or lower your skirt!

Carol Kelly

straightUp Loc: California

No mike... that's not what I am saying. I don't think so-called "pro-life" advocates can be blamed for any of the reported abortions since Roe v Wade because the conditions the so-called "pro-life" advocates are pushing for haven't been allowed to happen since then and THAT is what I mean when I say the so-called "pro-life" advocates are sponsors of untold mass abortions. They are pushing for a new condition where abortions are prohibited by law and there is abundant proof that prohibition only sweeps the problem under the rug, it doesn't actually save any lives. In fact it makes it harder to monitor and control.


You obviously don't understand the points I am making. I think you and a lot of other so-called "pro-life" people are way too entrenched in their "crusade" to learn the facts necessary to see it.


Thanks for bringing up a moot point.


Ugh.. see my previous response.


I am a pragmatic man of science and humanity. I do believe in God and I admire the teachings of Christ but I am not religious. So your "Truth" will only be a fable to me, but it may help me understand your point of view better if you want to try.

Carol Kelly

Pardon me for stepping in where I shouldn't, but I must say that when abortion was illegal we didn't have even 2percent as many abortions. If a woman's life is endangered, if she is a rape victim or the victim of a family predator, by all means abortion should be considered. I am pro-life, a Christian whose faith keeps me afloat. I am unwell, but I
cling to life and I'm opposed to suicide, assisted suicide or whatever. That is God's work.

peter11937 Loc: NYS

When did Obama switch parties. HE has doubled the national debt over the last eight years. As for CA, the debt is home grown by a Democrat majority in power for decades.

JimMe

I don't see criticizing Our USA for having "... the highest debt in the world..." as insulting... What I see it as openly criticizing a Political Body who acts in their own interests of being re-elected time-and-again rather than being Fiscally Responsible... And, to a lesser degree, California's politicians have shown themselves to mirror the Federal Political Elite...

JimMe

straightUp...

Prior to the Democrats gaining a majority in the House of Representatives and the Senate in 2007, there was never a Fiscal Year Deficit in the USA greater than $596 Billion... Beginning in FY 2008 and the Democrats belief of Borrow-and Spend, the only 2 Fiscal Years there were lower Deficits were in FY 2013 when the GOP House didn't raise the Debt Ceiling and the Deficit was $672 Billion, and in FY 2015 again when the GOP House didn't raise the Debt Ceiling and that year's Deficit was $327 Billion... Since 2008 and the Democratically led Trillion Dollars Deficits, Our USA Debt has increased from $9.007 Trillion at the end of FY 2007 to $19.525 Trillion at the end of FY 2016... More than doubling Our Debt in 9 years...

These figures are from the USA Treasury Department...

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

The idea of "my Truth" is foreign to me. Some opinions I have may be subjective, but Truth, real Truth, is either absolute or relativistic. But allow me to tell you an incident from history to, as you put it, "understand my point of view better." Before we begin, I would like for you to briefly consider if there is anything for which you or your family would willingly sacrifice your lives? While you consider the remote possibility of that ever happening to your family, I want to tell you about a mere pinch of incense that cost the lives of thousands of Christian families.

For all the horror stories we've heard how terrible the Romans persecuted Christians, the Roman hierarchy weren't entirely unsympathetic to their plight. In Rome, for example, there was a building called the Pantheon which housed all the Roman gods as well as the monolithic gods of the people they had conquered. The major concern of Rome was not the Christian God but rather the Christian refusal to acknowledge any God, including Caesar, other than their own. (A parallel to those ancient times we see today in America with the intolerance towards Christian morals and values.)

Rome contrived what they considered a reasonable compromise. In the Pantheon burned day and night a brazier for the sole purpose of worshippers to put in a pinch of incense honoring all the different gods. The Roman hierarchy sought a compromise by which all a Christian had to do was put a mere pinch of incense on the brazier under surveillance of a guard and go free. Thousands suffered martyrdom instead. Next, the hierarchy suggested the guard would have his back turned, put on the pinch of incense and go free. Thousands more ended up in the arena to be killed by beasts and other means; entire families. Fully exasperated, Christians were told that the guard would have his back turned and all that would be required of them was to pretend they were tossing a pinch of incense on the brazier to false gods. Some, of course, compromised their faith from the first opportunity but the vast majority did not and willingly sacrificed their lives and refused to compromise their faith by even pretending to toss a pinch of incense to honor a lie. Today, America and her people toss heaping shovels full of incense constantly. Today, some faithful Christians continue to refuse to compromise our faith so that the evil and hedonistic government, and those who support it, can sacrifice the lives of children in the wombs of their mothers, as well as destroy the sanctity of marriage and family. We resist evil not because we always expect to win, but simply because evil exists. Compromise more often is not a virtue but a vice. The early church had much to say about the sin of abortion and it is well documented.

I choose to stand among the historical faithful. You may see me as a stubborn ass, a mule, but I prefer the analogy of a finely trained race horse who will run the race as hard as he can all the way to the finish line.

straightUp Loc: California

Carol... how do you expect to be taken seriously if you say such silly things? Who do you think does the counting? The clinics that perform legal abortions do. Do you really think illegal abortions performed in secret get counted? Do you think a desperate teenager who doesn't want ANYONE to know that she just illegally killed her baby with a coat hanger is going to actually report what she just did? Do you think she would even know where to report it if she did? Seriously, you need to take a moment and think about that.

We have no idea how many abortions are performed illegally because they generally don't get reported. There are some exceptions such as the cases where the mother dies and the autopsy traces the cause to a botched abortion. What's alarming is that world-wide, these exceptions number about the same as the total number of legal abortions. The logical assumption, based on the reported numbers, is that the total number of illegal, unreported abortions far outweigh the number of legal and reported abortions - by how much is anyone's guess. This makes sense to me because many of the countries that prohibit abortion also prohibit sex education and birth control.


According to pardremike, ANY justification of ANY abortion makes you less than human... But I'm glad YOU at least have the insight to consider the context.


I'm sorry to hear you are not well. I sincerely wish you the best. My brother is also unwell and he also clings to life though he is not religious... so I guess life can be valued without religion too, but I do appreciate that for some, religion is a source of strength and I respect that. I really don't have a problem with any religion until it starts to force itself on others and that goes for the Muslims as much as the Christians.

As for the so-called "pro-life" advocacy, I don't see it as being so much a religious issue as I do a legal issue that religious groups including Christians and Muslims tend to support. My attacks fall squarely on that legal advocacy. As far as I am concerned I am the real pro-life contender here and I oppose the legal objective of the so-called "pro-life" advocacy because I think that objective (prohibition) will put millions more in utero at risk of being murdered and with an escalated degree of brutality.

This is why I can't bring myself to reference the advocacy as "pro-life" without the "so-called" prelude.

straightUp Loc: California

oh... ok peter... (if that's not the most blatant example of "I really have no clue but I'm just going to blame the libs")

peter11937 Loc: NYS

Seems to me you're straight up delusional.

straightUp Loc: California

I don't either. The reference was simply to point out that California's debt is par for the course. I think the person I was responding to was the one trying to be insulting.


Well, I agree with you that California politics are a scaled down approximation of American politics in general. The founding principals are very similar and California's government is constrained by the same U.S. Constitution.

I also agree that the interest in being re-elected plays a big hand in the politics that leads to escalating debt because debt is the result of spending money without raising taxes to cover it and "low tax" is one of the most common and effective campaign pitches. But it seems to me it's always the Republicans that making that pitch and sure enough, records show that Republicans incur more debt than Democrats.

So, I'm not sure who you are calling the Federal Political Elite, but if that's a reference to conservatives then yes, I agree with that too.