Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I have been studying and thinking about the teachings of Jesus... aka Yeshua aka Joshua.... Did he teach anything that was not from the Torah?

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Yes, He said He was God!

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Did he? I know that one time he said before Abraham was born, "I am." Is he quoting from Exodus when G*d responded to Aaron and Moses (because Moses did not go to the mountain of Sinai alone.....)? That aside... his teachings... did he teach anything that is not in the Torah... or if you will, the Old Testament?

I am just trying to understand and not argue. So, your information or comments will be treated with respect. Thanks.

Singularity

He did claim the authority to forgive one's personal sins contingent upon mental/spiritual effort (repentance and prayer,) rather than requiring repeated animal sacrifices and burnt offerings.

Yet also claimed;

"Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
Matthew, chapter 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

It is clear that if his teachings were to fulfil the old Testament laws and Christian righteousness exceeds that of the Jewish religious leaders and practitioners, that something additional was added or required to produce these claims..

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

He taught and did so many things it's difficult to simply list them all. First, there are over 200 prophecies regarding Jesus as Messiah in the old testament and He fulfilled (filled full) all of them. He sent the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Truth), The Comforter, after His Ascension to guide His Church into all Truth,(man has greatly interfered here), He made known God as Father, as "Our Father" and He was not the warrior king that Israel, especially the religious hierarchy, wanted.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

The laws have always given an avenue for redemption from sins. In the Torah, one who sin against someone had to go and ask them for forgiveness and then pray..... So, what was new that Jesus taught? Did he not say “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them,” but “if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” Additionally, did he not say: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven” Ergo, does this not say that we all have the capacity to forgive those who sin against us? Same as the teachings of the Torah. Of interest, the apostles were given the authority to forgive sins and then the church began to forgive sins. Indeed, even pagans of the time claimed they could forgive sins.

I am looking for something that Jesus taught that was not already in the Torah.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Jesus was speaking to His apostles not to every church member or every Tom, Dick, or Harriet. The authority to forgive sins IN HIS NAME was (and remains) with those clergy ordained in apostolic succession. And saying this, of course, will open up Pandora's Box. Might as well finish the fullness of the Truth. Apostolic succession remains in only two churches, Orthodox and Roman Catholic. No others. That does not mean that our Lord's grace is denied to others because His grace flows where He allows it to flow. But scripture is very emphatic when the apostles say to follow the traditions they were taught and to remember who their teachers were.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

So.... what did he teach that is not in the Torah? You say there are over 200 prophecies in the Torah about Jesus being the Messiah, yet you do not list even one. What about the prophecies he did not fulfill?

Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple
Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel
Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore."
Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel - uniting the entire human race as one: "G-d will be King over all the world—on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One"

And here are some other thoughts.... does G*d hate any person? The Torah says no.... G*d is not hate nor would He provoke anyone to anger. However, it seems that Jesus never missed an opportunity to provoke and show contempt and hate toward the Religious Scholars and Theologians of the time (Priests and Pharisee). He could have healed people on any other day of the week, but He often did it on the Sabbath. He could have been more discreet in violating the Pharisees’ rules, but He did it openly. When a Pharisee invited Jesus to dinner, He could have gone along with their elaborate hand-washing custom, but He deliberately ignored it. When they questioned Him about it, He could have been more polite, but He blasted them for their hypocrisy. When a lawyer pointed out that Jesus had offended them as well, He didn't say, “I’m sorry! I didn't mean to offend you good folks.” He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well!” Take a look at the book of Mark.... Jesus called the Religious Scholars and Theologians of the time; "fools, hypocrites, blind guides, whited sepulchers, murderers, a generation of snakes." Yet he told his apostles to "turn the other cheek." So, was this a do as I tell you and do not do as I do???

These are only questions that I hope you can answer. Again, I am looking for something he uniquely taught that was not already in the Old Testament

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

So you can not forgive someone who transgress against you, interesting. Then using your logic, everything he taught his disciples or apostles were not intended for the unwashed masses, but for the "clergy ordained in apostolic succession"? Indeed interesting. Thank you, I did not know.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

You said you didn't want to argue but you didn't say you didn't want to "twist" things such as forgiveness. Of course you are called to forgive someone who has sinned against you and just as important to seek forgiveness from someone you have sinned against. But all sin is first against God so ultimately you need Christ's forgiveness and absolution to be fully purged from sin. Christ left His authority to forgive sin to clergy ordained in apostolic succession. More you should know about you forgiving someone who has grievously sinned against you. Forgiveness is an act of your will not necessarily an act of the heart. If you sincerely desire to forgive someone, even though you do not feel warm and fuzzy towards them, they are indeed forgiven by an act of your free will. Now please, stop with the nonsense of the unwashed masses.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

The reason Jesus was so hard on the religious authority was because they had made the "Faith" so difficult to follow the common man could not do so. He showed the religious authority up for their own hypocrisy and they hated Him for doing so. Conversely today many clergy have made it too easy and all, according to them, one has to do is give a one time commitment to Jesus as Lord and expect to hop skip into heaven. The entire meaning and purpose of life is to attain heaven. It's not easy but it's not accomplished without discipline, Faith, Grace, knowledge, confession and forgiveness of sin, action and love. And let us not forget joy.

Singularity

What does Torah teach regarding or similar to the Christian concept of an afterlife and Heaven/Hell? I recall this was contentious for a while.

mcmlx

I'm thinking more along the teachings that he gave, such as Matthew chapters 5 though 7. Do not say an eye for an eye, the beatitudes, the golden rule, the model prayer, divorce, love your enemies, etc.
He built on the Scriptures because He IS the high priest.
Maybe not exactly what you are looking for.

TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!

No he did not.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I am not twisting anything, and had I known that you are unable to discuss this subject without making personal attacks, I would have just read your input and not responded. The Greek Philosopher, Plato, said, "If you would converse with me, please, first, define your terms." In any discussion, I find it very necessary to follow his lead. So, we are dipping our toes in water that is very deep. So, what exactly is a sin? Most theologians accept that a “Sin” may be defined as a behavior that is unacceptable to a deity or supernatural being and subject to punishment by him. I can transgress against you without offending G*d. As an example, it is apparent that I offended you by my question.... was this an offense against G*d? Or if I frown and someone sees it and mistakes it as displeasure with them, regardless of what I was thinking, and they become offended.... have I sinned against G*d? True, in your view I transgressed against you and therefore you were 'righteously' offended.... but, my act was not intentional. And here lies the problem.... one must first separate out what exactly is a 'sin' in the eyes of G*d.... and He made it clear in Exodus chapter 20... and this is why G*d Himself went on defining judgments in chapters 21 through 40. My point... not all 'sins' are against G*d and indeed some sins may not be forgiven.... this is not to say that G*d can not forgive all sins, it means that He may consider the context of your life... in other words, repeated offenders or the matter of intent...

I use the term "unwashed masses" not as a dig or put down, but meaning those outside of the selected one or few. It is a common expression, not intended to upset you or anyone.

And... my question still remains.... did Jesus teach anything that was/is not contained in the Old Testament?