AvJoe

I have just reviewed Article V project Liberty unfortunately I found it to be a pack of lies, Half truths and exaggerations. Someone will have to show me the facts to back up this propaganda. I promise to attempt to try to leave an open mind until and if these facts can be supported.

AvJoe

Augustus unless I have completely misread this statement seems to be advocating (without restriction) the experimentation on humans. Perhaps I should not have taken him so literally but we were talking about Nazi Germany which used live humans for so called "scientific" experimentation. That is why I asked for a definition of when life begins (in context)_and advocated the subjects of dare I say it abortion or euthanasia were logical continuations of the question of scientific experimentation.

Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE

AvJoe,

You may be talking about the legal, ethical or moral uses of live human beings for scientific experimentation. I was not. I was pointing out the "jaundiced" perspective of another commenter.

I also pointed out that abortion is, scientifically, the taking of a human life. There is no debatable issue concerning, scientifically, at what point in reproduction a new life comes into being.

Did you actually read my comments?

Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE

Science can be conducted in an ethical or unethical fashion, a moral or immoral fashion, a legal or illegal fashion. Science conducted in an unethical, immoral, or illegal fashion is no less science than if it is conducted in an ethical, moral, or legal fashion.

I am stating a fact. I am NOT advocating either ethical/unethical, moral/immoral, or legal/illegal scientific studies.

I do not understand where in what I wrote you came to that conclusion. It is almost as if you did not read what I wrote or attempt to understand all of it as a comprehensive idea.

AvJoe

AvJoe

By the way Augustus, the very reason I called for a discussion of when life begins is that I disagree withy your answer to that very question.

Lasher Loc: Georgia

[quote=ABBAsFernando][i]KC,

Your thoughts seem viable, but consider the bigger picture. This conspiracy runs very deep beginning decades ago, perhaps centuries! A group of bankers got together to form the privately owned Federal Reserve System and their thugs the IRS.
===============
For more on the origin of the Federal Reserve System, Google "The Creature From Jekyll Island."


Over time our money was taken off the gold standard, then the silver. Today we have fiat money based solely on debt. We the People are being conned into paying interest to the banks on worthless money. This group of individuals created communism and backed Hitler and the Axis powers during WWII. Marxism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and all the isms are the children of these bankers.
==========================
And the fact is, all those bankers are Zionists.




Useful Idiots of this axis of EVIL are convinced by EMOTIONAL knee jerk slogans and 30 second sound bites. Logic and reason is lost on them.

It all is a PONZI Scheme to enslave the poor to enrich the few. Communism fools the low information individual into supporting their own enslavement.
================
Those Zionists don't care what type political party runs a country, as long as they control its money.


EVIL doers in the form of bankers seek a one world government of FASCISM. Defined as a alliance of banks, corporations and government. The political class rule over everybody else. Everybody else serves the STATE.
==============================
You are correct, but you need to realize just who these evil-doers are. They are Zionists and their "useful idiots" who can be gentiles such as the Bushes, Cheney, Murdoch etc., but the Zionist Jews are the leaders of the parade, and will use anyone they can to assist them in their march to world power.

Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE

Wouldn't it have been more expedient to write a rebuttal to the assertion, than to call for a discussion?

You didn't. You could have posted it as new topic, but you didn't. A statement of your disagreement would have made interesting reading.

I surmise you dislike my position as opposed to disagree with my position. You would like my position to be false, just as Rumitoid would like his position to be true.

Yankee Clipper

Go get em August...

AvJoe

I do not agree or advocate your position on abortion (or lack there of) and the fact is you have no authority except religion to advocate such a position. A discussion was called for because the subject is one of disagreement and several positions have been advocated including after the first trimester, 5 months, six months up to and including seven months in the extreme case. There is also an issue of if the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother from abortion in no case to permitting abortion at any time if the mother's health is in danger. I await your comments.

Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE

No. Fact there are 7 scientific characteristics of life. The human zygote exhibits them, therefore the human zygote is a human life. I did not assert anything about the law. Only the fact that scientifically a human life is terminated by abortion.

You have the misconception that if an act is legal, it is moral and ethical. You are wrong.

Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE

You wish to discuss when it is legal to terminate a human life before birth. This is not a discussion on when life begins.

The term "abortion" is applied to two distinct and separate things: Pregnancy and embryo/fetus. Abortion of a pregnancy is not against the law in the USA, if there is no fetus. And no one is seeking laws requiring a woman bring a dead fetus to term or anything of that sort. I hope we are clear that we are discussing aborting living fetuses, not aborting pregnancies.

I have made no appeal to religion in my opposition to aborting human life. I want the facts to be clear on what is being discussed.

AvJoe

Because something exhibits a similarity to something does not make it so. a camelion and many other animals exiibit the ability to appear to be what they are not. Does an animal say an ape embro in its early stages of justation have similarity to a human embro.

As for the question of legality/ethical and moral correctness
one could say that there is a diversity of opinions about that. Some whould argue that viability outside the womb should be the criteria. It is crtainly a perplexing question.

Allow me to make one additional point, what if any rights should the mother of that fetus have in making a decision.
Now we are dealing with two directly opposite views. Finally Should government even be involved in this decision.

HAPPY 4TH TO ALL MY OPP FRIENDS!

Nuclearian Loc: I live in a Fascist, Liberal State

Joseph Mengeles, Nazi, experimented on Jews and other "dregs" of society. The USA condemns those kinds of heinous crimes, but our legalization of Abortion is no different. The USA has NO right to condemn human rights violations of ANY OTHER country, while we are killing our children.

Lasher Loc: Georgia

Agreed!