straightUp Loc: California

Hi... I'm a software engineer and a traditional family man, meaning I bring home the bacon and my wife takes care of the home. My children never had to go to day care and I had to work hard to compete on the consumer market with a single income to keep it that way.

I am disgusted with the way today's conservative leaders use the term "family values" to promote their profit-driven agenda and sorely disappointed with the way so many of today's conservative voters can't figure out the ruse and refuse to try because they think political affiliation is an identity factor instead of a transient direction.

When asked if I lean left or right I say it depends on which direction I think our nation needs to turn to avoid crashing. In 1980 I was saying "veer right", but now, especially since Bush, I am screaming "hard left!" ...because we ARE crashing and I believe it's because of the last 30 years of rightward leaning. Starting with Nixon and his dismissal of the gold standard.

If I had one wish it would be that people would look at issues objectively. Which means listen to all sides of an argument, tune into sources of information from all perspectives and realize that politics and government are a means to an end not the end itself.

I don't believe there is any validity to the moronic phrase, "what's good for America" because America is populated with conflicting interests. I think the nation is too big for one government. It doesn't work in China, it really doesn't work in India, it didn't work for the Soviets and it's not working here.

I believe Americans have the rapid exploitation of vast resources to thank for their living standards which unfortunately is not sustainable and that economic and political systems have very little to do with it.

I do not think that business leadership and government leadership is the same thing. Business leaders are focused in balance sheets... Government leaders should be focused on human conditions as expressed by our democracy. So far, the businessmen that have taken high level office have shown themselves to be utter failures concerning human conditions. I think we do much better with leaders who studied law.

I am concerned that the current distaste for government, though understandable, translates to our abandonment of democracy and I think Citizens United is a nail in that coffin. Our future should not be auctioned off to the highest bidder.

I'm tired of hearing about the "nanny-state" from the the political affiliations that are supporting and populating the largest prison system in the world. This prison system IS a government funded welfare system and conservatives have insured that we spend more money on that than we do on education. And no, I am not a free-loader, my income is in the top 10% but I have no problem supporting others in less fortunate situations. To me it's an honor to be part of a system that cares for it's sick and hungry and I don't get pissed off because I think I'm being taken advantage of by poor people - all that matters to me is that I've done my part. I'm embarrassed by those who whine and cry about having to contribute their precious money to such an admirable system.

I have the highest regard for charity, but I know that in the aggregate, this county is more hungry than it is charitable so if we want to call ourselves a nation that doesn't let it's citizen die in the streets then we need a fair ante system across the board. You want to sit at the table? Ante up.

I support Obama because I think he had the right ideas but a president can't accomplish much if the opposition party refuses to cooperate, especially when he is handed the reins of an out-of-control team of horses, driven to hysteria by the previous leader.... who I would like to see impeached.

(yes, you can impeach a president who is no longer in office and there are benefits to doing so)

I am not a communist but I will say that true communism has yet to be implemented ANYWHERE. It's a pipe dream that's been used by several tyrannical systems to gain popular support the same way Islam is used by tyrannical factions in the ME for the same purpose and "God and Country" is used by tyrannical ambitions here in this country.

OK... I'm done ranting.

Just one note. I recognize that every human in the world really wants the same thing... to be happy and secure and that most arguments come from conflicting ideas about how to attain that.

I look forward to learning from the people on this site.

Louis Buerkle

I am sure that you are a firm believer in what you say, but you should open
Your eyes and see what this president is doing to his country. The president
in the Oval Office Is the one that should be impeached! He has done nothing but lie since he took office and it was not for the good of the country,but for the self benefit issue. WAke UP!!!

Louis Buerkle

I wish that I was still working but no one will hire A man 80 years old and in a
Nursing home. just be thankful you re working, there are a lot that can't
Find a job !

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

StraightUP, I appreciate your being here with us. New blood is always good. Members with whom we agree make us feel vindicated, members with whom we disagree make us focus and think better. Members with no interest except hatred throw kinks into the machinery while accomplishing nothing, but we learn from that too.

I honestly believe you are a good, decent man to be respected, and until I learn differently,I do hold you in earned respect. That said, lest I be misunderstood, I totally disagree with you in almost every instance re politics and policy. I totally disagree with you re your assessment of both Presidents Bush and Obama. At this point, I won't go into the reasons for our differences ...... we will need things to talk about in future.

I do believe intelligent people sans agenda can learn from those with whom they disagree, but when the chips are down and individuals choose to ignore facts and logic, then it is time to move on and find someone who CAN accept facts and logic. I thoroughly enjoy discussing things with those who think outside the box, and am easily agitated with people who cannot see beyond their noses, who refuse to even try. I am a former conservative Republican of 50 years, who resigned the Party because it was not truly conservative. I watched it for 50 years play rug for the Democrat Party to trample on and could take it no longer. I am now a conservative libertarian who would under no circumstances I can imagine vote for any collectivist because they do not value individual rights. I am HUGE on individual rights.

I am a political junky - have been for 51 years. Follow every election closely, follow every scandal closely, follow most votes closely. I am for and represent individual freedom and work actively against all politicians who endanger those freedoms because those politicians will be the death of America as we have known it.....they have made tremendous inroads already.

I hope to see you around a lot,and I hope we can talk some about our differences because I don't think our differences are totally definitive. I think we are about the same things, but have different takes on some same issues.

Welcome to 1PP

straightUp Loc: California

Thank you Tasine :)

straightUp Loc: California

Louis,

Wake up... yes, indeed... 'Seems we are both saying the same thing to each other. ;)

Sorry to hear about your unemployment. I realize that's an issue for a lot of people. Thank you for reminding me how fortunate I am to be working. Even more fortunate that I enjoy it.

Maybe you can work on showing me where Obama has lied? :)
So far I've seen a tons of griping about his "lying" but I haven't seen a shred of evidence.

Oh and one point regarding your assertion that he has not been good for this country. In my intro I made it pretty clear what I think about that statement... "good for the country"... That this country is filled with conflicting interests means that maybe Obama hasn't been good for you personally, but for me and my family he's been a God-send.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As Louis resides in a nursing home, he may not have available all the info he needs to dig up any evidence of lying, but I am at home and found numerous sites listing his lies. I readily admit some may be iffy, even though stated being "documented", and I suspect all are true. Some listed, I know for a fact, re truly lies, as you will recognize some yourself if I am not mistaken about you.

List of documented Obama lies
Posted on November 15, 2011 by jcscuba
http://dancingczars.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/list-of-documented-obama-lies/


Below is a list of Obama’s documented lies so far with the most recent lies first. If you see we are missing a documented lie liberalsareclueless@gmail.com . Please click link then click yes.

Lies During Third Year

I cannot guarantee that those checks go out on August 3rd if we haven’t resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it.
American.com

USA producing more oil than ever before
Petroleum Insights

Fence between US and Mexico is “Practically Complete”
Department of Homeland Security says 5%

Rich doesn’t pay their fair share.
National Taxpayers Union

Lies During Second Year

No signing statements to nullify or undermine congressional instructions as enacted into law
Obama Lies to Keep Czars

No “boots” on the ground Libya
Anyone that has worked with the AC-130 gunship can tell you, you need spotters to let aircraft know where the targets are. Usually it is Special Forces, Rangers etc trained for this mission. It’s CIA Agents in Libya on the ground

Reform will also rein in the abuse and excess that nearly brought down our financial system. It will finally bring transparency to the kinds of complex, risky transactions that helped trigger the financial crisis.
Obama Lies About Financial Reform Bill

All Americans WILL BE were, “surprised, disappointed and angry” about lockerbie bomber
Obama Memo

I will not rest until the BP Oil Spill stops
Obama’s Schedule

The health care bill will not increase the deficit by one dime.
Campaign and Presidency

If you like the health care plan you have you can keep it
TownHall

“Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place.”
U.S. Capitol, Washington, D.C., September 9, 2009.

ObamaCare Fee is not a new tax
Obama denies healthcare is a new tax on all Americans

We have run out of places in the US to drill for oil.
Obama’s oval office speech in June 2010

Now suddenly if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you can be harassed, that’s something that could potentially happen.
Arizona Immigration Law

Doctors choose amputation because they get better compensation. Greedy Doctors taking out tonsils for more money.
Claims never documented

The Health Care Package will pay for itself
Time

Republicans don’t have a single idea that’s different from George Bush’s ideas — not one.
Hmm Immigration?

We shouldn’t Mandate the purchase of health care
Democratic Debate Lies

I am immediately instituting PayGo “Pay as you go”
Said during a speech immediately after the Trillion Dollar “Shovel Ready” bill.

I got the Message from Massachusetts
Daily Bail
Lies During First Year

We began by passing a Recovery Act that has already saved or created over 150,000 jobs.” – caught cooking the books and now changed to ‘jobs supported’ versus ‘created/saved’
AP fact Checker

Number one, we inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit. … That wasn’t me.” – Congress, under Democratic control in 2007 and 2008, controlled the purse strings that led to the deficit Obama inherited.Obama supported the emergency bailout package in Bush’s final months — a package Democratic leaders wanted to make bigger.
AP fact Checker

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Obama Inauguration. 20 Jan 2009

Cut Deficit in Half by end of first term
Associated Press Video

Health Care deals will be covered on C-span
Obama Lies

As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide
ABC

Recovery Act will save or create jobs
ABC News

Unemployment rate will be 8.5% without stimulus.
Obama Lies

No Earmarks in the $787 Billion Stimulus

CNN

I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan
Specator.Org

We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages.
Obama Lies

I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage.
NPR

Guantanamo bay to be closed within a year
Council on Foreign Relations.

Won’t Raise taxes on those making less than 250,000 per year.
Businessweek: Obama Agnostic on taxes
List of Tax Promise Violations
2008 Campaign Lies

Take our nuclear weapons off hair-trigger alert
ArmsControl.org – “the current alert posture … should not be changed”

Mr. Ayers as “a guy who lives in my neighborhood,” but “not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis.
News Busters

I had a uncle who was one of the, who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

Obama campaign would accept public funding
ABC

Minimum Wage will increase to $9.50/hr
A Socialist

Ann Dunham spent the months before her death in 1995 fighting with insurance companies that sought to deny her the coverage she needed to pay for treatment.
Mounting Heath Care Lies

Didn’t know Jeremiah Wright was Radical
Dreams of My Father – A radical Socialist.

Would have the most transparent administration in History
Cato Institute

We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way.
Boston Globe

I have visited all 57 states.
Snopes

I’ll get rid of earmarks
Source: Any bill passed during presidency

When a bill lands on my Desk, The American people will have 5 days to review it before I sign it.
Campaign Speech

My father served in World War II.
The Videos and the Facts

Have troops out of Iraq by March 31, 2009
News Video

Seniors Making less than 50,000 will not have to pay taxes
YouTube

Would not vote for any bill supporting troop funding without a firm withdrawal commitment from the Bush Administration.
He has done nothing but continue the Bush admins strategy and to explain how the “surges total failure” has now become his greatest achievement.

Present Votes Are Common In Illinois
NPR

I Won Michigan
Huffington Post

I won Nevada
The Nation

I don’t Have Lobbyists
US News

My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad
Crooks and Liars

I Have Always Been Against Iraq
Washington Post

My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country
CNN

Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.
Obama Campaign Video

I Barely Know Rezko
Sun Times

My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church
ABC News

Peace unto you

straightUp Loc: California

Tasmine thanks for the list. As I read through them I found many of them to be questionable, possible misinterpretations and stretched ambiguity, such as "boots on the ground" a phrase frequently used to refer to actual ground troops, as in infantry, not spotters. Seriously, that's just being pedantic.

Some of them just seem out of context and kind of, well... pointless. Such as "I won Michigan" Well, he DID win Michigan in 2008 AND in 2012. You have that down as a lie?

I think when developing these cases, you have to understand the target. If you're just trying to rile up the conservatives then long but shallow (as in very little backing) lists are perfect because all you're doing is telling them what they already want to hear, so they don't need any backing. And with a long list you can say things like "His fib count is up to 300! He really is a jerk!"

But see, if your trying to prove anything to someone like me you would do much better with just a few samples that are backed up with a solid proof.

It's late and I need to get to bed, but I'll check out your link tomorrow and I will stay tuned into this thread. Please don't assume that I'm just going to deny any proof you have. I am actually asking you to prove to me that he the liar you all say he is. I just personally haven't found that evidence.

I know Clinton lied and quite frankly, I don't see how any politician can actually succeed without making promises and ALL promises are prone to failure. It's the nature of politics. I just haven't seen (from Obama) any proof of intentional and malicious lying about issues with serious consequences such as the lies Bush told Congress to get them agree to a freaking war.

I did say I support Obama but that doesn't mean I'm married to him and unlike you and Louis, I don't go on feelings and suspicions. I wait for facts. Sorry for the accusation but you DID say you "suspect" all the items are true and you did say that Louis "may not have available all the info he needs to dig up any evidence of lying" and yet he seems to feel very strongly that Obama has "done nothing but lie since he took office".

'Gotta say, you guys make it real hard for me to believe that this is anything but a hatefest. I came here looking to expand my understanding through intellectual discussion. Maybe I just came at a bad time? Hit the wrong threads?

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not MY list. It is compiled, by others, from many sources, and if you read or listen to anything except groups who are Obama's strong supporters, I am flatly amazed that you need proof of his lying. Have you never caught him in a lie? Have you ever checked out instances where he is accused of lying - or do you define all such cases as "hate fests" and because of that, checking out the info is beneath you? No one should have to prove the obvious to an intelligent person.

More food for your fodder re Obama and lying.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/time-choosing/2013/may/15/benghazi-showcase-lies-and-incompetence-obama-and-/

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/matthew-vadum/obama-scandals-far-worse-than-watergate/

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2013/05/07/president-obamas-benghazi-lies-unravel

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obamas-claim-he-called-benghazi-an-act-of-terrorism/2013/05/13/7b65b83e-bc14-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_blog.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3019126/posts?page=1

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/white-house-email-bombshell-obamas-benghazi-lies-reflect-fear-of-messaging-ramifications/

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Obama%27s+Lies+vs+the+Truth&qpvt=Obama%27s+Lies+vs+the+Truth&FORM=VDRE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzmaEXdwnU8

Please don't come back with "context", innuendo, any and all forms of excuses for this man being a pathological liar. He lies because he thinks lies serve him better than the truth. He may be right about that, but someone who is so honored as to be selected President, compulsively LYING time after time after time,in most cases without need, to the people who got him elected is beyond reprehensible. It should be impeachable, though lying isn't the worst thing Obama has done by FAR.

If you want to support him while denigrating far more decent people than him, that is your business and your right, but when you try to get others to accept the same swill you are prepared to gladly swallow, you will be sadly disappointed. Most of us know Obama far better than we know YOU. We obviously read and hear more things about him than you do; otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. We would be discussing how to get him out of the highest office in the nation.

What mystifies me more than Obama is ordinary people refusing to see the obvious, which you are on the edge of doing. Why would someone do that unless he has something to gain by denying the obvious?

Re your comment about Bush lying to Congress. There again, you don't seem to know what you are talking about. What you are doing is repeating the DNC mantra AFTER Congress saw all the data Bush saw, congressional democrats were standing, encouraging all to vote to go to Iraq for bin Laden, EVEN Hillary Clinton. Her husband, I am sure you know, was offered bin Laden before 9/11, and Clinton refused to take custody of him. Not only Bush, but the US Congress, the British Prime Minister, heads of state of several nations, all of whom helped in the beginning of the effort to get back at the terrorists. So, if Bush lied, so did most of the world, including the US Democrat Party. I suppose I COULD go back and write a history book for you re the lead-up to Iraq, but everyone on the Dark Side would deny all truths, so why should I bother. I know what goes on. If you don't, I can't help you because I don't know how to teach anyone how to grasp logic.

:roll:

straightUp Loc: California

you said... "So, if Bush lied, so did most of the world, including the US Democrat Party. "

The US Democrat Party isn't beyond lying Tasmin. So are you saying it's ok that Bush lied so long as other's did too?

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nope. What I am saying is that your side is a bunch of low-life worthless liars and hypocrites. Plus, Bush didn't lie. But your side lies as a matter of course - and we KNOW it.

straightUp Loc: California

So MY side is a bunch of low-life worthless liars and hypocrites that lie as a matter of course unlike Bush... who simply didn't lie - period.

Alrighty then. Guess that ends that debate - ;)

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What "debate"?

straightUp Loc: California

Any debate... You just described how your mind is made up that any perspective that isn't in line with right-wing propaganda is a lie. Do you realize how easy it is to control people like you? People who are emotionally attached to one side of a political balance are already bent over with their pants down and BTW, it happens on BOTH sides!

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't hear talking points because both major parties are unworthy. The DNC is the dark side and has NO integrity, and the RNC is wimpy and afraid of its own shadow. I don't care for either and I am not a supporter of either. Unlike you who shill for the pustule democrats, I don't shill for the republicans. What I do - and you'll never understand this - is lobby for TRUTH and LIBERTY, both of which are in short supply and hence why I am MAD most of the time.

My mind IS made up once I know the facts - and I know fact from fiction. I understand and abide by my principles. I live and vote according to those principles. I know what I believe and why I believe it....and it has NOTHING to do with "talking points". I despise all who want to deny individual freedoms, dem or rep is irrelevant to me. I despise all liars, dem or rep. I disagree with all who want Obama's will done because it is HARMFUL to the nation and all Americans. I reserve my hatred for issues that harm society and individuals. I know harm when I see it. I cannot fathom why the Dark side either cannot see harm when they do it OR why it loves doing harm. I can only attribute it to mental illness.