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Trusting or Forgiving?
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Aug 26, 2014 14:58:39   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

Trusting means saying, "Here God. I turn this over to you." the implication of that action is you will cease worrying or thinking about whatever you turned over to God.


"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)


Forgiveness means saying, "I forgive you for your trespass/offense against me." By forgiving, the implication is you will forget about the trespass/offense which occurred.

With the above as the premise, which is the harder of the two things; trusting/turning it loose or forgiving/forgetting?

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Aug 26, 2014 15:39:42   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
AuntiE wrote:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

Trusting means saying, "Here God. I turn this over to you." the implication of that action is you will cease worrying or thinking about whatever you turned over to God.


"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)


Forgiveness means saying, "I forgive you for your trespass/offense against me." By forgiving, the implication is you will forget about the trespass/offense which occurred.

With the above as the premise, which is the harder of the two things; trusting/turning it loose or forgiving/forgetting?
color=blue Trust in the LORD with all your heart,... (show quote)


I suggest forgiving and forgetting being the most difficult.

Reply
Aug 26, 2014 15:42:33   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
AuntiE wrote:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

Trusting means saying, "Here God. I turn this over to you." the implication of that action is you will cease worrying or thinking about whatever you turned over to God.


"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)


Forgiveness means saying, "I forgive you for your trespass/offense against me." By forgiving, the implication is you will forget about the trespass/offense which occurred.

With the above as the premise, which is the harder of the two things; trusting/turning it loose or forgiving/forgetting?
color=blue Trust in the LORD with all your heart,... (show quote)


Very good and interesting questions. In my humble opinion, both are extremely difficult matters when approach from a human or secular prospective. In fact I would hedge my bet that humanly speaking it is impossible to do either.

In the same vane, we are sinners saved by grace; notice the order. First sinners, then saved sinners by grace. We spend much time focusing on repenting of what we do vs. what we are.

Even when one is saved, heaven bound; while on earth we are subject to the effects of living in a sinful environment. The god of this world attacks the Christian far more than he does them that he has in his fold.

A Christian not totally submitted to Jesus as Lord of all that he/she is or has is subject to worldly actions. Such as worry, fear, doubt, etc. So in my estimation, both trusting God, and Forgiving others are both possible if one is totally sold out to God.

One has to know what forgiveness really means.
First forgiveness does not mean that when someone hurts you and you forgive them is not to say that you agree that what they did to you was right.

It means that you are admitting that you are not capable of judging them so in forgiving them, you are turning them over to the one who judges righteously. Which is God.

If you will read Acts 7:59-60; As Stephen was being stoned he cried out, "Lord do not hold this sin against them."

unforgiveness is a sin, therefore it must be dealt with. The only one who can deal with sin, is the sin bearer, His Name is Jesus.

Trusting is a faith matter. The Bible says, "without faith it is impossible to please God." Not trusting God is also a sin for the believer. James says in James 1:6-8 that one who doubts is double-minded, unstable, and should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.

So in summary. Neither action is possible to the un-believer.
Both are not only possible but a reality to those who are totally submitted to the Lord. Yes the solid Christian can both trust and Forgive. Give it to God and go about your business..Don't know if I made a speech, but just offering what I believe.

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Aug 26, 2014 15:52:35   #
AuntiE Loc: 45th Least Free State
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
I suggest forgiving and forgetting being the most difficult.


I think the forgiving may be easy; however, forgetting may be the more difficult. As an example, last week I had a contretemps over a posting by another. I have forgiven the issue, but have not forgotten. Hence, is it really forgiven?

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Aug 26, 2014 15:57:30   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Armageddun wrote:

So in summary. Neither action is possible to the un-believer.
Both are not only possible but a reality to those who are totally submitted to the Lord. Yes the solid Christian can both trust and Forgive. Give it to God and go about your business..Don't know if I made a speech, but just offering what I believe.


I suggest that forgiveness is the hardest for anyone, trust is situational and easier to get by with.

For instance, I can trust Bernie Madoff, now that he is locked up, but I will never forgive for taking my money because I may be living on the streets as a constant reminder of his sins. Even God recognized some sin is not forgivable such as denying him. It is us because we were created in his image.

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Aug 26, 2014 16:00:06   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Speaking only for myself. I am a micromanager and have problems turning over any large project or thing, so mine would be trust. I do trust in God, but I am the one that created my mess so I figure that I should be the one to try and fix it. It is only after I have exhausted every effort do I finally go to God, and even though it is not necessary to do so, I explain my situation or problem and what I have done, then I admit that it is beyond my capability to handle. I ask for help and then walk away. Whenever I start to worry over it again, I simply think of the other things that I have screwed up and try to work on them. In the end, I am either give a solution to my problem--like a thunderbolt of revelation, or the issue simply goes away. Funny how it all works out.

Now forgiving to me is not the same as forgetting. I easily forgive people, but I will remember the circumstances of the issue and do my best to steer away the hot spot or conversation. I have a friend, who has been arguing this with me for years, she says that to really forgive one has to forget. I think I even created a topic on it back last year. She says that my inability to forget is hypocritical. I still do not know if I am right or not. I argue that one has to learn, much like a child learns the stove is hot by putting their hand on it. The child soon forgives the stove for the burn because it learns to associate the stove with good food, but the child never again puts their hand on a hot burner.

Thanks for the post. It made me think. But, you are good at preparing a table!

AuntiE wrote:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

Trusting means saying, "Here God. I turn this over to you." the implication of that action is you will cease worrying or thinking about whatever you turned over to God.


"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)


Forgiveness means saying, "I forgive you for your trespass/offense against me." By forgiving, the implication is you will forget about the trespass/offense which occurred.

With the above as the premise, which is the harder of the two things; trusting/turning it loose or forgiving/forgetting?
color=blue Trust in the LORD with all your heart,... (show quote)

Reply
Aug 26, 2014 16:13:05   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
ginnyt wrote:
Speaking only for myself. I am a micromanager and have problems turning over any large project or thing, so mine would be trust. I do trust in God, but I am the one that created my mess so I figure that I should be the one to try and fix it. It is only after I have exhausted every effort do I finally go to God, and even though it is not necessary to do so, I explain my situation or problem and what I have done, then I admit that it is beyond my capability to handle. I ask for help and then walk away. Whenever I start to worry over it again, I simply think of the other things that I have screwed up and try to work on them. In the end, I am either give a solution to my problem--like a thunderbolt of revelation, or the issue simply goes away. Funny how it all works out.

Now forgiving to me is not the same as forgetting. I easily forgive people, but I will remember the circumstances of the issue and do my best to steer away the hot spot or conversation. I have a friend, who has been arguing this with me for years, she says that to really forgive one has to forget. I think I even created a topic on it back last year. She says that my inability to forget is hypocritical. I still do not know if I am right or not. I argue that one has to learn, much like a child learns the stove is hot by putting their hand on it. The child soon forgives the stove for the burn because it learns to associate the stove with good food, but the child never again puts their hand on a hot burner.

Thanks for the post. It made me think. But, you are good at preparing a table!
Speaking only for myself. I am a micromanager and... (show quote)


...maybe dementia is the Lord's blessing to help us forgive. Just kidding.

It sounds like you believe forgiveness is the hardest. Think how Job must have felt after his so called friends told him that the Lord was punishing him? He probably trusted them, but didn't seek out their advice...

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Aug 26, 2014 16:24:45   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
...maybe dementia is the Lord's blessing to help us forgive. Just kidding.

It sounds like you believe forgiveness is the hardest. Think how Job must have felt after his so called friends told him that the Lord was punishing him? He probably trusted them, but didn't seek out their advice...


The best thing Jobs friends did for him was the 7 days they remained silent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Aug 26, 2014 16:28:42   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Armageddun wrote:
The best thing Jobs friends did for him was the 7 days they remained silent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


That's a fact most could appreciate, since we only verify what fools we are by opening our mouths.

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Aug 26, 2014 16:34:41   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
AuntiE wrote:
I think the forgiving may be easy; however, forgetting may be the more difficult. As an example, last week I had a contretemps over a posting by another. I have forgiven the issue, but have not forgotten. Hence, is it really forgiven?


That is why I said when we forgive it must be as God has forgiven us. That is not quite as easy as falling off a log. Because we are saved doesn't mean our human nature is killed. It has been wounded greatly but the only way we can forgive and forget is to give it to the one who sends sin as far as the east is from the west.

God says your sins and iniquities I will remember no more.
We know we have to forgive because if we don't we will not be forgiven. However, since the forgetting is the hard part, we have to trust God to throw the memory into the sea of forgetfullness.

Forgiving when sincere is an instant thing, forgetting is a gradual process that involves giving it to God each time the memory comes to mind. It may take a while but when we give it to Him instead of harboring it in our minds, forgetting will come.

As they say time is a healer.

Reply
Aug 26, 2014 16:40:33   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
ginnyt wrote:
Speaking only for myself. I am a micromanager and have problems turning over any large project or thing, so mine would be trust. I do trust in God, but I am the one that created my mess so I figure that I should be the one to try and fix it. It is only after I have exhausted every effort do I finally go to God, and even though it is not necessary to do so, I explain my situation or problem and what I have done, then I admit that it is beyond my capability to handle. I ask for help and then walk away. Whenever I start to worry over it again, I simply think of the other things that I have screwed up and try to work on them. In the end, I am either give a solution to my problem--like a thunderbolt of revelation, or the issue simply goes away. Funny how it all works out.

Now forgiving to me is not the same as forgetting. I easily forgive people, but I will remember the circumstances of the issue and do my best to steer away the hot spot or conversation. I have a friend, who has been arguing this with me for years, she says that to really forgive one has to forget. I think I even created a topic on it back last year. She says that my inability to forget is hypocritical. I still do not know if I am right or not. I argue that one has to learn, much like a child learns the stove is hot by putting their hand on it. The child soon forgives the stove for the burn because it learns to associate the stove with good food, but the child never again puts their hand on a hot burner.

Thanks for the post. It made me think. But, you are good at preparing a table!
Speaking only for myself. I am a micromanager and... (show quote)


Apt description, the child and the stove. Your inability to forget is not hypocritical at all. Everyone has personal boundaries not to be crossed and while there are some who either seem to sense or who will "learn" what those boundaries, there are others who would, if we let them, stomp all over them, as if they do not exist. There is one whose path crosses mine with interaction with the Amish community. She has no sense of boundaries. I have called her on it. While I will give her a helping hand up with no reservation, I "know" that if I do not keep watch, she will attempt to take advantage and her response when asked why might she do "something" is..."well, it's just business." She knows that I am quite well aware that no, it isn't "just" business." All of life is like that and while forgiving is what God would wish us to do, I don't believe forgetting is.

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Aug 26, 2014 16:56:46   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
That's a fact most could appreciate, since we only verify what fools we are by opening our mouths.


:thumbup: :thumbup:

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Aug 26, 2014 16:58:02   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
You have a point. Perhaps as we age and have racked up so much that we can not let go of, God simply provides us with an escape from our own judgment. I know that I beat myself for saying an unkind word, or even stepping in front of someone in a grocery line. So forgiving myself is probably my hardest task. To forgive others, sure why not even when they do not apologize or ask for forgiveness. However, if the insult is repeated and repeated, I look at them as working the devil's work and just trying to tempt me into committing the sin of lashing out at them. So, I distance myself from them. There are verses in the bible to speak of this. But, I will spare you.

Job's friends were his peers ideologically no less than socially; he belonged to their circle both in deed and in creed. A chasm opened between him and them only because of a disaster that Job alone knew to be undeserved. One may compare and contrast the midrashic word play, that has Job hearing God's answer out of a "hair" (which is a homonym of "storm" in Hebrew) from contemplation of a microcosm. The grand vista of nature opens before Job, and it reveals the working of God in a realm other than man's moral order.

Job responds to, and thus gets a response from, the numinous presence underlying the whole panorama; he hears God's voice in the storm. The fault in the moral order--the plane on which God and man interact--is subsumed under the totality of God's work, not all of which is reasonable. Senseless calamity loses some of its demoralizing effect when morale does not depend entirely on the comprehensibility of the phenomena but, rather, on the conviction that they are pervaded by the presence of God. As nature shows, this does not necessarily mean that they are sensible and intelligible.


Dummy Boy wrote:
...maybe dementia is the Lord's blessing to help us forgive. Just kidding.

It sounds like you believe forgiveness is the hardest. Think how Job must have felt after his so called friends told him that the Lord was punishing him? He probably trusted them, but didn't seek out their advice...

Reply
Aug 26, 2014 16:58:56   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Armageddun wrote:

Forgiving when sincere is an instant thing, forgetting is a gradual process that involves giving it to God each time the memory comes to mind. It may take a while but when we give it to Him instead of harboring it in our minds, forgetting will come.

As they say time is a healer.


....and why we must forgive 7 times 7.....

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Aug 26, 2014 17:04:45   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
....and why we must forgive 7 times 7.....


70 X's 7 That is the difficult part.

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