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Why Obamacare Sucks
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Jun 17, 2014 06:54:16   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Does Obamacare suck?

Yes, it does...

And this is why...

Insurance companies are still involved... The same insurance companies that have made our health care system the worst piece of crap system in the developed world, the same insurance companies that have also managed to make that piece of crap system the most expensive in the developed world. The same insurance companies that commodifies your health, turning the question of your well being into a question of their profit. The same insurance companies that have replaced doctors with bean counters as the primary advisory.

Obamacare didn't make health care any more accessible to me, it didn't make it any better for me either. Obamacare just forced me to buy insurance. That's all. So, I bought the cheapest policy I could find that covers my basic needs from Independence Blue Cross, which worked out to $390.87/mo based on my income. I put down the first payment which covered me for April. At the end of May I was prepared to pay another $390.97 (you know, to help pay for medical treatments for other people.) But their website says I owe $781.74. So, I called them on the phone. They explained that the invoice is wrong, that the system doesn't know that I already paid for April and that for now, I should pay over the phone rather than the Internet. So I get out my credit card but the agent said, "ooh, I'm sorry we can't accept credit cards at the moment because we are having problems with our system. I said, what the hell am I supposed to do then? Apparently, the only option was to send in a check via mail, which isn't exactly paying over the phone, but I did it anyway and I saw the check being cashed a few days later.

Well, I just got an invoice in the mail saying I still owe the $781.74 plus another 390.84 for June, so a total of $1,172.61 before 07/01 to stay legal. I guess tomorrow I need to loose another lunch hour on the phone with these idiots. This entire issue is 100% caused by the typical ineptitude of a private insurance company. The ONLY part the government played is telling me that I have to deal with it.

I DO understand the need to share the burden of paying for health care just like we share the burden of paying for police service, common defense and firefighters, but these all work because non-profit governments are handling it, not profit-obsessed insurance companies.

I hope Obama is right when he says the ACA is only the beginning of the reform process, because while I appreciate the intention to regulate the insurance industry, we all know that the industry itself will find news ways exploit our health issues to recapture the profit lost to regulation or to fund massive multimillion-dollar campaigns that portray them as poor struggling victims of government abuse. Barrack... I'm just saying that somethings are so bad they can't be regulated they just have to be killed. I sincerely hope that killing the health insurance industry is the eventual plan.

And no, I'm not an anti-capitalist - I have no problem with profit motives in elective markets like entertainment and consumer electronics, because we can always walk out on a movie, we can always return a product. But we can't always do that with our health. In health care, the stakes are much higher. So we need something less concerned about profit and more concerned about... health.

Reply
Jun 17, 2014 08:22:17   #
carbob
 
oh, sure, the govt can do it better. If you think the VA
chaos was bad, serving a few million veterans, wait until
the bureaucrats have full control for 315 million citizens.
Apparently you have been on a different planet for the past
year or so and have missed the grand opening moves of
Obamacare.

bdief

Reply
Jun 17, 2014 08:26:31   #
DASHY
 
straightUp wrote:
Does Obamacare suck?

Yes, it does...

And this is why...

Insurance companies are still involved... The same insurance companies that have made our health care system the worst piece of crap system in the developed world, the same insurance companies that have also managed to make that piece of crap system the most expensive in the developed world. The same insurance companies that commodifies your health, turning the question of your well being into a question of their profit. The same insurance companies that have replaced doctors with bean counters as the primary advisory.

Obamacare didn't make health care any more accessible to me, it didn't make it any better for me either. Obamacare just forced me to buy insurance. That's all. So, I bought the cheapest policy I could find that covers my basic needs from Independence Blue Cross, which worked out to $390.87/mo based on my income. I put down the first payment which covered me for April. At the end of May I was prepared to pay another $390.97 (you know, to help pay for medical treatments for other people.) But their website says I owe $781.74. So, I called them on the phone. They explained that the invoice is wrong, that the system doesn't know that I already paid for April and that for now, I should pay over the phone rather than the Internet. So I get out my credit card but the agent said, "ooh, I'm sorry we can't accept credit cards at the moment because we are having problems with our system. I said, what the hell am I supposed to do then? Apparently, the only option was to send in a check via mail, which isn't exactly paying over the phone, but I did it anyway and I saw the check being cashed a few days later.

Well, I just got an invoice in the mail saying I still owe the $781.74 plus another 390.84 for June, so a total of $1,172.61 before 07/01 to stay legal. I guess tomorrow I need to loose another lunch hour on the phone with these idiots. This entire issue is 100% caused by the typical ineptitude of a private insurance company. The ONLY part the government played is telling me that I have to deal with it.

I DO understand the need to share the burden of paying for health care just like we share the burden of paying for police service, common defense and firefighters, but these all work because non-profit governments are handling it, not profit-obsessed insurance companies.

I hope Obama is right when he says the ACA is only the beginning of the reform process, because while I appreciate the intention to regulate the insurance industry, we all know that the industry itself will find news ways exploit our health issues to recapture the profit lost to regulation or to fund massive multimillion-dollar campaigns that portray them as poor struggling victims of government abuse. Barrack... I'm just saying that somethings are so bad they can't be regulated they just have to be killed. I sincerely hope that killing the health insurance industry is the eventual plan.

And no, I'm not an anti-capitalist - I have no problem with profit motives in elective markets like entertainment and consumer electronics, because we can always walk out on a movie, we can always return a product. But we can't always do that with our health. In health care, the stakes are much higher. So we need something less concerned about profit and more concerned about... health.
Does Obamacare suck? br br Yes, it does... br ... (show quote)


AMEN. Medicare for all is the way to go.

Reply
 
 
Jun 17, 2014 08:47:03   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
bdief wrote:
oh, sure, the govt can do it better. If you think the VA
chaos was bad, serving a few million veterans, wait until
the bureaucrats have full control for 315 million citizens.
Apparently you have been on a different planet for the past
year or so and have missed the grand opening moves of
Obamacare.

bdief

Apparently, you think the VA actually *does* health care... They don't. The veterans are still dependent on private industry, which explains the entire problem. All the VA does is pay for it.

Thanks for giving me an even better argument than I had before. And BTW, I've been right here during the entire Obamacare drama. I also spent 5 years in the UK where I learned what a real health care system looks like. It works soooo much better than the piece of crap system we have. Coming back to the States was like giving up my Acura TL that works for a beat up old Ford Pinto that I have to keep fixing. And Obamacare forces us all to drive Pintos. I guess that's WHY our system is rated as the worst in the developed world. Thank GOD I have dual citizenship and a National Health card. You, on the other hand have what? An imagination?

Reply
Jun 17, 2014 09:21:50   #
Olden McGroen Loc: Texas
 
straightUp wrote:
Does Obamacare suck?

Yes, it does...

And this is why...

Insurance companies are still involved... The same insurance companies that have made our health care system the worst piece of crap system in the developed world, the same insurance companies that have also managed to make that piece of crap system the most expensive in the developed world. The same insurance companies that commodifies your health, turning the question of your well being into a question of their profit. The same insurance companies that have replaced doctors with bean counters as the primary advisory.

Obamacare didn't make health care any more accessible to me, it didn't make it any better for me either. Obamacare just forced me to buy insurance. That's all. So, I bought the cheapest policy I could find that covers my basic needs from Independence Blue Cross, which worked out to $390.87/mo based on my income. I put down the first payment which covered me for April. At the end of May I was prepared to pay another $390.97 (you know, to help pay for medical treatments for other people.) But their website says I owe $781.74. So, I called them on the phone. They explained that the invoice is wrong, that the system doesn't know that I already paid for April and that for now, I should pay over the phone rather than the Internet. So I get out my credit card but the agent said, "ooh, I'm sorry we can't accept credit cards at the moment because we are having problems with our system. I said, what the hell am I supposed to do then? Apparently, the only option was to send in a check via mail, which isn't exactly paying over the phone, but I did it anyway and I saw the check being cashed a few days later.

Well, I just got an invoice in the mail saying I still owe the $781.74 plus another 390.84 for June, so a total of $1,172.61 before 07/01 to stay legal. I guess tomorrow I need to loose another lunch hour on the phone with these idiots. This entire issue is 100% caused by the typical ineptitude of a private insurance company. The ONLY part the government played is telling me that I have to deal with it.

I DO understand the need to share the burden of paying for health care just like we share the burden of paying for police service, common defense and firefighters, but these all work because non-profit governments are handling it, not profit-obsessed insurance companies.

I hope Obama is right when he says the ACA is only the beginning of the reform process, because while I appreciate the intention to regulate the insurance industry, we all know that the industry itself will find news ways exploit our health issues to recapture the profit lost to regulation or to fund massive multimillion-dollar campaigns that portray them as poor struggling victims of government abuse. Barrack... I'm just saying that somethings are so bad they can't be regulated they just have to be killed. I sincerely hope that killing the health insurance industry is the eventual plan.

And no, I'm not an anti-capitalist - I have no problem with profit motives in elective markets like entertainment and consumer electronics, because we can always walk out on a movie, we can always return a product. But we can't always do that with our health. In health care, the stakes are much higher. So we need something less concerned about profit and more concerned about... health.
Does Obamacare suck? br br Yes, it does... br ... (show quote)


Was it the insurance companies' fault before the ACA forced you to into this nightmare? And if so, why did you participate in it? Prior to the ACA you didn't have to deal with insurance if you didn't want to. Now, you're forced to because of GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. Have you considered all of the onerous bureaucracy and regulations that have contributed to this mangled mess?

Reply
Jun 17, 2014 10:36:43   #
DASHY
 
Olden McGroen wrote:
Was it the insurance companies' fault before the ACA forced you to into this nightmare? And if so, why did you participate in it? Prior to the ACA you didn't have to deal with insurance if you didn't want to. Now, you're forced to because of GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. Have you considered all of the onerous bureaucracy and regulations that have contributed to this mangled mess?


Think of the mangled mess we would have at every intersection of roads in this country without the GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION of placing traffic control devices like STOP signs at critical locations.

Reply
Jun 17, 2014 11:13:35   #
Ricko Loc: Florida
 
DASHY wrote:
Think of the mangled mess we would have at every intersection of roads in this country without the GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION of placing traffic control devices like STOP signs at critical locations.


Dashy-equating Stop Signs to Health Care is ludicrous. Furthermore, local governments install road signs not the federal government. Medicare is a small program compared to the VA but fraud is rampant and billions are wasted each year. More and more services are being denied or curtailed and here-to-for readily available drugs are becoming non-formulary. That is because 700 billion was taken from medicare to finance the flawed obamacare. Instead of tweaking the system we had the Obama gang decided to do a complete overhaul which has little to do with health care and a lot to do with government control. So far it has been a disaster and the sticker shock will come in Jan 2015 when the employer mandate kicks in. To recap: over 6 million premium paying customers lost their insurance policies due to the ACA. They now claim to have 7 million enrolled. Most of those are on medicaid (they do not pay any premium) or subsidized by the taxpayer which means someone else is paying a higher premium so that the subsidized individual can pay a lower premium. The premium payers are sitting on the sidelines waiting for this monster to implode on its own. Meanwhile we taxpayers wasted billions trying to get a web site up and running and three years later we are back to point A. They cannot tells us how many have insurance or how many have actually paid and they obviously have accounting problems. So national health care for 315 million people is really a pipe dream. Good Luck America !!!

Reply
 
 
Jun 17, 2014 16:53:16   #
DASHY
 
Ricko wrote:
Dashy-equating Stop Signs to Health Care is ludicrous. Furthermore, local governments install road signs not the federal government. Medicare is a small program compared to the VA but fraud is rampant and billions are wasted each year. More and more services are being denied or curtailed and here-to-for readily available drugs are becoming non-formulary. That is because 700 billion was taken from medicare to finance the flawed obamacare. Instead of tweaking the system we had the Obama gang decided to do a complete overhaul which has little to do with health care and a lot to do with government control. So far it has been a disaster and the sticker shock will come in Jan 2015 when the employer mandate kicks in. To recap: over 6 million premium paying customers lost their insurance policies due to the ACA. They now claim to have 7 million enrolled. Most of those are on medicaid (they do not pay any premium) or subsidized by the taxpayer which means someone else is paying a higher premium so that the subsidized individual can pay a lower premium. The premium payers are sitting on the sidelines waiting for this monster to implode on its own. Meanwhile we taxpayers wasted billions trying to get a web site up and running and three years later we are back to point A. They cannot tells us how many have insurance or how many have actually paid and they obviously have accounting problems. So national health care for 315 million people is really a pipe dream. Good Luck America !!!
Dashy-equating Stop Signs to Health Care is ludicr... (show quote)


Stop signs are used to control traffic at a busy intersection. All drivers who approach, no matter how big their car or how much it costs, are treated the same. The Affordable Care Act attempts to control the delivery of health care to all Americans, no matter what a person can afford to spend. Even pipe dreams sometime come true. Think SHARE rather than IMPLODE.

Reply
Jun 17, 2014 18:02:01   #
Olden McGroen Loc: Texas
 
DASHY wrote:
Think of the mangled mess we would have at every intersection of roads in this country without the GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION of placing traffic control devices like STOP signs at critical locations.


=====================================

Thank you for your simplistic Apples to Oranges analogy.

Sorry, but the "one-size-fits-all" approach by government doesn't fix everything.

Reply
Jun 18, 2014 07:11:05   #
wheel
 
people seem to forget that the "evil" insurance companies pay for most of the union pensions and 401k dividends from their evil profits. whe you gut the insurance companies you kill the goose that laid the golden egg

Reply
Jun 18, 2014 09:00:13   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Olden McGroen wrote:
Was it the insurance companies' fault before the ACA forced you to into this nightmare? And if so, why did you participate in it?

Yes, because whether or not the government is forcing me to deal with insurance companies, it was STILL the only choice if I wanted to provide my family with medical coverage. Raising a family and refusing to provide some kind of coverage is basically refusing to take care of your family. I'm not a looser like that. Also, the experience I described isn't something that just started happening... I've had plenty of ridiculous situations with insurance companies throughout the years.

Olden McGroen wrote:

Prior to the ACA you didn't have to deal with insurance if you didn't want to. Now, you're forced to because of GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. Have you considered all of the onerous bureaucracy and regulations that have contributed to this mangled mess?

Yes, I have... and without the obsession to blame the government for everything, it's hard to actually link any of that "bureaucracy" to the problems I described. Also, I would say at least 80% of the bureaucracy is corporate, not government. I worked in the industry for years - trust me, I know about corporate bureaucracy in the insurance sector.

Speaking of bureaucracy... the average administrative overhead in the insurance industry is 20%... For Medicare it's 5%. So you wanna talk about bureaucracy?

Reply
 
 
Jun 18, 2014 09:09:35   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Ricko wrote:
Dashy-equating Stop Signs to Health Care is ludicrous. Furthermore, local governments install road signs not the federal government. Medicare is a small program compared to the VA but fraud is rampant and billions are wasted each year. More and more services are being denied or curtailed and here-to-for readily available drugs are becoming non-formulary. That is because 700 billion was taken from medicare to finance the flawed obamacare. Instead of tweaking the system we had the Obama gang decided to do a complete overhaul which has little to do with health care and a lot to do with government control. So far it has been a disaster and the sticker shock will come in Jan 2015 when the employer mandate kicks in. To recap: over 6 million premium paying customers lost their insurance policies due to the ACA. They now claim to have 7 million enrolled. Most of those are on medicaid (they do not pay any premium) or subsidized by the taxpayer which means someone else is paying a higher premium so that the subsidized individual can pay a lower premium. The premium payers are sitting on the sidelines waiting for this monster to implode on its own. Meanwhile we taxpayers wasted billions trying to get a web site up and running and three years later we are back to point A. They cannot tells us how many have insurance or how many have actually paid and they obviously have accounting problems. So national health care for 315 million people is really a pipe dream. Good Luck America !!!
Dashy-equating Stop Signs to Health Care is ludicr... (show quote)


Actually, there is nothing ridiculous about Dashy's point. You're splitting hairs when you say road signs are not the role of the "federal government"... Actually, the federal government subsidizes a LOT of local government projects, such as roads and it doesn't matter anyway, the difference I am drawing here is the difference between private industry and government... it doesn't matter if it's federal or local... the difference is that government is driven by human needs and private industry is driven by profit. There is no profit in placing road signs, but there *is* a human need. So guess who's putting up signs? The only signs private industry puts up are for advertising. On a similar vein, whether or not insurance companies will help you with injury or sickness isn't dependent on your human need, but on whether or not they can make money from it. This is why cancer is the one area we excel in, because enough people have it to make it profitable. My brother has something far more rare, Cron's... For THAT insurance companies have been nearly worthess.

Reply
Jun 18, 2014 10:13:17   #
Olden McGroen Loc: Texas
 
straightUp wrote:
Yes, I have... and without the obsession to blame the government for everything, it's hard to actually link any of that "bureaucracy" to the problems I described. Also, I would say at least 80% of the bureaucracy is corporate, not government. I worked in the industry for years - trust me, I know about corporate bureaucracy in the insurance sector.

Speaking of bureaucracy... the average administrative overhead in the insurance industry is 20%... For Medicare it's 5%. So you wanna talk about bureaucracy?
Yes, I have... and without the obsession to blame ... (show quote)


=====================================

You chose to purchase insurance for your family prior to the ACA. It wasn't manditory. Whether you deemed it a "need" is of no consequence to the rest of us, nor the insurance company. They provide a product and service with a price just like anything else. You signed on and agreed to the terms. That was your choice, not a mandate.
Stop whining about it.

That ACA changed what was once a choice into a mandate. Did you vote for the Democrats that crammed this POS legislation down our throats without Republican input whatsoever? If so, you have nothing to complain about. Take your "medicine" and deal with it.

You claiming that the government is more efficient than the private sector is laughable. "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here."

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 22:33:21   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Olden McGroen wrote:
=====================================

You chose to purchase insurance for your family prior to the ACA. It wasn't manditory. Whether you deemed it a "need" is of no consequence to the rest of us, nor the insurance company.

Yes, I understand that. Just like I understand that your "neediness" is of no concern to me... or the insurance industry. And I know you have needs, we all do... equally disregarded - and that's just touching on the part of the problem you don't seem to understand... I'll just call it a general disregard for human needs. Let it all be handled by the invisible hand of the free market, right? All that pie-in-the-sky theory that even John Adams himself said was less than realistic.

Olden McGroen wrote:

They provide a product and service with a price just like anything else. You signed on and agreed to the terms. That was your choice, not a mandate.
Stop whining about it.

Yes, just like everything else... that's what I'm saying... health care should not be like "everything else"... Does it take a certain level of intelligence to understand that paying to watch a movie and paying to save your life on an operating table are not the same damned thing?

And yes, before ACA I *did* sign agreements and I *made* the choice to cover my family and I will continue to bitch about the fact there isn't a better option... I'm sorry to dis your happy choice of shit or nothing, but I've seen better options. So why the hell would I want to settle for shit when I know better options are are out there, working for millions of other people? Since when does being American mean you have to settle for shit or nothing? You know why we don't have a better option? Because despite almost a century of Americans asking for it, the insurance industry ultimately compromised our democracy AND managed to brain wash the dim-witted half of the population into thinking it's profit or communism. Well, that's BS.

Olden McGroen wrote:

That ACA changed what was once a choice into a mandate. Did you vote for the Democrats that crammed this POS legislation down our throats without Republican input whatsoever? If so, you have nothing to complain about. Take your "medicine" and deal with it.

I voted for the Democrats that spent about a year going over all the details with the Republicans. I read about all the back-and-forth between them. I was tuned into the final draft of the the ACA, which was drawn up by the House after LOTS of Republicans input. I saw the results of the votes that were cast during normal business hours with only one or two representatives absent. Then I laughed my ass off at all the whiny drama weezing out of the radio talk shows about how the law was crammed down the throats of the Republicans. Comedy like that is all the medicine I need.

I thought it was a step in the right direction from the perspective of establishing to regulations to improve the quality of our options but since then it's become very clear to me that the insurance industry will do everything possible to resist and despite my outrage I realize that they can't be blamed... They are themselves slaves to investment demands. It's just a very bad approach to health care.


Olden McGroen wrote:

You claiming that the government is more efficient than the private sector is laughable. "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here."

Yes, I know you folks are all stocked up with crazy. That's very obvious to the rest of us. Look, I'll give you one more chance to see this and if you want to laugh it off that's your choice...

A government is a non-profit organization. Non-profit organizations provide services at cost. If the service cost $10, they will charge $10.
So... price = cost

A corporation is a commercial business built on debt. The debt has to be serviced hence the need for profit, so if the cost of service is $10, they will need to charge $10 + the cost of the debt.
So... price = cost + debt

All else is equal... (Governments and corporations are not that different when it comes to daily operations) Whether a specific government office is "efficient" or a specific corporate branch is "efficient" is not only irrelevant but it's practically impossible to measure conclusively. That example I gave you with the admin overhead costs was just one specific case. I could just as easily find examples where corporations are more efficient than government. In the end it's about what is possible. Because, of the cost of the debt (to shareholders) is attached to the corporation, a non-profit has the natural cost advantage.

On the flip side there is the competition argument. But you have to realize that no amount of competition is going to drop a price below cost, which as I've said is lower for a non-profit. Just look at the way the insurance industry reacts to the "public option" They KNOW if the government wants to get in on the game with their price=cost... there is no way the debt laden insurance companies can compete and that's what scares them about ACA more than anything else.

The idea of Americans getting good health care at cost.

Reply
Jun 19, 2014 22:46:48   #
Airforceone
 
straightUp wrote:
Does Obamacare suck?

Yes, it does...

And this is why...

Insurance companies are still involved... The same insurance companies that have made our health care system the worst piece of crap system in the developed world, the same insurance companies that have also managed to make that piece of crap system the most expensive in the developed world. The same insurance companies that commodifies your health, turning the question of your well being into a question of their profit. The same insurance companies that have replaced doctors with bean counters as the primary advisory.

Obamacare didn't make health care any more accessible to me, it didn't make it any better for me either. Obamacare just forced me to buy insurance. That's all. So, I bought the cheapest policy I could find that covers my basic needs from Independence Blue Cross, which worked out to $390.87/mo based on my income. I put down the first payment which covered me for April. At the end of May I was prepared to pay another $390.97 (you know, to help pay for medical treatments for other people.) But their website says I owe $781.74. So, I called them on the phone. They explained that the invoice is wrong, that the system doesn't know that I already paid for April and that for now, I should pay over the phone rather than the Internet. So I get out my credit card but the agent said, "ooh, I'm sorry we can't accept credit cards at the moment because we are having problems with our system. I said, what the hell am I supposed to do then? Apparently, the only option was to send in a check via mail, which isn't exactly paying over the phone, but I did it anyway and I saw the check being cashed a few days later.

Well, I just got an invoice in the mail saying I still owe the $781.74 plus another 390.84 for June, so a total of $1,172.61 before 07/01 to stay legal. I guess tomorrow I need to loose another lunch hour on the phone with these idiots. This entire issue is 100% caused by the typical ineptitude of a private insurance company. The ONLY part the government played is telling me that I have to deal with it.

I DO understand the need to share the burden of paying for health care just like we share the burden of paying for police service, common defense and firefighters, but these all work because non-profit governments are handling it, not profit-obsessed insurance companies.

I hope Obama is right when he says the ACA is only the beginning of the reform process, because while I appreciate the intention to regulate the insurance industry, we all know that the industry itself will find news ways exploit our health issues to recapture the profit lost to regulation or to fund massive multimillion-dollar campaigns that portray them as poor struggling victims of government abuse. Barrack... I'm just saying that somethings are so bad they can't be regulated they just have to be killed. I sincerely hope that killing the health insurance industry is the eventual plan.

And no, I'm not an anti-capitalist - I have no problem with profit motives in elective markets like entertainment and consumer electronics, because we can always walk out on a movie, we can always return a product. But we can't always do that with our health. In health care, the stakes are much higher. So we need something less concerned about profit and more concerned about... health.
Does Obamacare suck? br br Yes, it does... br ... (show quote)


That's the provider not Obama care. I have absolutely no problems what so ever. I never thought it would be this easy to get a policy with a $750 deductible. $5.00 copayment drugs $25 copayment for doctors visits. The ACA is 100% managed by the private sector. Federal government has nothing to do with it. The ACA just has minimum requirements. Your problem is with the provider not the ACA. And nobody is paying for you. You can never get cancelled you have no max payouts. You have to understand what you have and what your old policy was all about. On the next open enrollment change your provider. Your problem is the provider not the ACA. There will be another 45 providers in November. If you have a problem send me a PM through this site I can help you if you want. I have helped 12 people and all are very happy.

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