lpnmajor Loc: Arkansas

You all remember this equation; Republicans denied Obama's jobs numbers and Democrats deny Trump's jobs numbers. How do we figure out what the truth is? Math, using math..................but NOT the Governments math, which isn't math anyway..............it's propaganda.

Here's the real equation:

Unemployed drawing benefits + unemployed no longer drawing benefits + under employed = the total number of un/under employed Americans.

Un/under employed Americans - total number of new jobs created = x/100 = jobless rate.

Now you can do the math yourself, finding the real numbers by comparing Labor Dept. numbers to those from other sources. I imagine your total will supersede the Governments numbers by 20% - 25%, depending on which numbers you find.

The long and short of it is; The Governments own job numbers/unemployment numbers are never accurate, they're fake, manufactured - propaganda.

Now use the same math to see what the real state of the economy is..................because the Governments method of determining this, uses the same math they used for their jobs/unemployment numbers.

I hate being lied to, aren't you?

Gatsby

First they tell us that the numbers are "seasonally adusted" then they tell us that the numbers reflect "seasonal changes"?
And NOW you tell me that they are "pulling my leg"?

ExperienceCounts

Nope, they've just plain out been LYING. About 10-15 years ago there was a mass unemployment adjustment of the "over 50" employees by employers. Older employment seekers couldn't get hired for various reasons-they were over qualified (with degrees or experience) or under qualified because on the job training or years doing a certain job didn't count because they didn't have a college degree, etc. Bottom line, employers wanted younger, cheaper employees and kicked their older, experienced help to the curb. Said over 50 crowd took lower paying jobs, part-time and full time jobs, downsized their expectations and finally took their retirement when pushed into it by economics. Oh, and yes, when these same workers were no longer eligible for unemployment benefits, they didn't count in the unemployment figures.

teabag09

One thing I know for a fact is that since President Trump was elected export train activity is as high as I've ever seen. Both coal trains and container trains are more numerous and at least three times as long. Before he was elected coal train activity was almost nil and the containers numbered maybe 35 to 50 cars each. Both are now running in the hundreds of cars each. Mike

nwtk2007 Loc: Texas

So, what did you come out with??

emarine

Interesting observation Mike... now factor in deregulation & Trumps push for cheap coal to be burned here as well as China who is investing in clean coal tech & we're not... I know all those unemployed coal miners were just begging to get back underground to die young like their father's & grandads & lets not forget the strip mining guys who love blowing up mountains for cheap coal… sort term gains cause long term problems but it does make for longer trains...go Trump...

DaWg44

Total payroll checks are a more accurate number, but checks issued by small businesses are a guess. Nikki Haley resisted Government figures. A man or woman working 2-3 jobs to make 50% of what they were making did not count as two employed people to her. Any figure is a moving target.

The real lie in government figures is the number who have given up. They are not counted in most scenarios.

PaulPisces Loc: San Francisco

LPN - I think you have hit the proverbial nail on the head...it is literally impossible to accurately gather 2 critical pieces of data in your equation: unemployed no longer drawing benefits + under employed.

Further, I think the unemployment rate is not the only relevant statistic in economic health. Perhaps not even the most important one. Wages are stagnant, growing at barely .02% according to the study at the link below. One can have essentially -0- unemployment, but if wages do not grow the plight of the working class remains bleak.

https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-arent-growing-in-america

emarine

There are clearly two economy's in America... the large rapid increases of the wealthy VS most everyone else... the data is whatever someone chooses to see ...

DaWg44

I was working on clean coal in the 70’s for W R Grace. The technology exists, whether it is being used or not, I don’t know. I do know we proved it had a 2 year payback which was acceptable back then.

There is no such thing as a safe mine, but current safety regulations are light years ahead of the 70’s. Mine Standards are more strict than general OSHA Standards.

We were able to remove the stink from paper mills by recycling the stink, condensing it & feeding right back into the digesters. We lost the two industries to countries w/ no Standards & slave labor.

I think labor, safety standards, should be a part of tariff discussions. We don’t need another Mexico, receiving the shaft like it did in the final NAFTA agreement. The air from Mexico comes here & to Canada.

emarine

Good points... I don't think the way to lead others is by deregulation lowering the bar to 3rd world standards to make a larger profit for those who already make a good profit... Proper regulation forces change for the good for everyone while providing new opportunity's for a future... deregulation is regression that stifle's innovation... we were real good at innovating once... seems its easier to go backwards now...

DaWg44

The original NAFTA legislation had all these points in it. I am a conservative, apolitical, was green long before it was popular. I grew up on a small farm, had to be green to survive, had to do no harm, let the land rest, even if you knew it would mean more cornbread & fewer beans.

The real problem is we invented the processes in most cases, they have been stolen, & have become a part of governments subsidizing industries, making for unfair trade. The workers in China won’t get an extra dime for running a clean coal plant. China’s mining is a human disaster.

There no easy answers but there will be no discussion until someone draws a line in the sand & says we are not going any farther down this road to destruction.

Crayons Loc: St Jo, Texas

I Hate Maff...M'ore A'ltered F'inancial F'iction

badbob85037

When ever obama was on TV and his lips were moving I would turn the television off. I hate being lied to too. Little lies aren't as bad and they were not made to destroy the nation like that idiot obama.

son of witless

You do realize that coal mining is no longer done with picks and shovels and mules, right ? You do realize that unlike Chinese Coal Miners, American Coal Miners are well paid, right ? You do realize that this is not your Grand Daddy's coal mining industry, right ?