PeterS

Very good question!

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

What, Exactly
Are We To Infer From Some Meme ??
That This Is Some Settled In Granite Law ??
Today's Opinion Is Less Than 60yrs Old

Is This Like Some Inspirational Flash-Card
Palming Itself Off As Words Of Wisdom ??

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Bravo, brother.

Sicilianthing

>>>>

She’s a Lunatic !

PLT Sarge Loc: Alabama

You pissed me off a couple weeks back with a post you made. I do like your posts, so I continue to read them. With this post, others including myself are asking your position. It's a good post. What is your position ?

Manning345 Loc: Richmond, Virginia

I did a search on separation of church and state since I was a bit hazy on the legal position of the separation we do have, and why it is in force;

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-separation-of-church-and-state-249635

This is one of the better articles I read, and it declares separation a two-way street, in that government must not declare a religion for us all to follow; and, very importantly, no religion can infiltrate the government and dictate their beliefs to the nation. It obviously recognizes that the separation is not called for in so many words in the Constitution. But it does point out that the First Amendment does the job of ensuring religious freedom.

What this means is such things as no prayer in public schools, and no direct incorporation of ethics and dictates of any church into the government. That we are still about 65% Christian in the US does not mean we Christians can promote laws that benefit us alone, to the detriment of others, or not, much as we want to have a few of them to help straighten out the nation.

It makes sense when seen in this light.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Since when are the Christian principles of morality and ethics a detriment to anyone, whether or not they believe in God? The 10 Commandments are the basis of our criminal codes.

To suggest the separation of church and state is a two way street is absurd. The state is prohibited from influencing or interfering with the affairs of the church, and vice versa. However, in recent years the state (government) has crossed the line in many cases. Including attempts to repeal the tax exempt status of churches and state and court support of homosexual assaults on Christian owned businesses.

When America was founded, the Bible was a primary text book in our schools, it served many purposes, from learning to read to teaching moral behavior.

PeterS

Only that secularism has worked in this country since its inception--so why contemplate anything else...

PeterS

Well my position would be the same as Justice O'Conners in that the separation of church and state works and without it freedom in this country would be impossible...

Sicilianthing

>>>>

Sure pal, tell that to the scumbag Ph**king Muslims !

PeterS

This is what Madison had to say: “The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed.” and

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State" (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history" (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together" (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

I find it very ironic that he thought the idea was made very clear by the first amendment yet conservatives Christians don't think separation at all implied by the constitution!

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm

PeterS

Well it would apply to Muslims just as it would apply to any other religion...

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Pu-leeze
The United States Was Known As The Least Secular, Most Christian Practicing Nation In Christendom
May Still Be...
Because Atheist Secularism Was An Unmatched Humanitarian Catastrophe In The Last Century ??

Atheists Enjoy Their Atheism On The Back Of The Religious Moral Traditions Of Society At Large
Without The God-Head Religious Buffer,
Atheists Set Out To Slaughter Each Other And The World Around Them

You Do Realise That Atheism Is Actually Solipsism
And That Islam Is A Carnal Satanic Cult, With Lucifer As It's Al-lah, Right ??

PeterS

Unless Church and State is a two way street there is no way to keep religious beliefs from eventually working their way into our legislation.

Oh, and you say our criminal code is based on the ten commandments? So why is it I can be an atheist and others can be Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, Seik's, Wickens, etc? The only commandment in our criminal code stealing. Everything else either isn't in our criminal code, or was dropped, or depending on how it is read (like murder vs kill) simply doesn't apply. I can covet all I want, commit adultery all I want, worship as many gods or no gods as I desire and your Christian religion can do nothing to prevent it.

As for the bible being our primary text in our schools that was because the bible was usually the only book owned by any one family. If you are going to teach people to read you use what's available--as books became more available the bible was used less and less until it wasn't used at all.

And you really should read about Rodger Williams. He was a puritan minister who believed the only way to maintain the purity of religion from the intrusion of government was to keep the two completely separate. It was his "big idea" that had the greatest influence on the American Revolution of any one man.

The separation of church and state, or secularism, is the only way for a diverse nation such as ours to insure the maximum amount of freedom for its citizens. You may be unable to separate your religious beliefs from your political beliefs but most of the founders weren't fundamentalists and understood that unless religion and government were kept separate of each other then one day politics would be used to extend ones religious beliefs over others and in violation of ones right to individual freedom.

http://www.blue-route.org/blog/blog/religion/seed-planter-for-the-american-revolution/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/god-government-and-roger-williams-big-idea-6291280/

PeterS

Secularism isn't an atheist idea but in the United States was promoted by a Puritan Minister Rodger Williams and adopted by our founding fathers. And we can have a nation dominated by Christians and still have a secular government. Simply because fundamentalists can't separate their religious beliefs form their political beliefs doesn't mean that that isn't how our government was, and still is, set up today.

http://www.blue-route.org/blog/blog/religion/seed-planter-for-the-american-revolution/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/god-government-and-roger-williams-big-idea-6291280/