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May 25, 2018 23:46:16   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Nickolai wrote:
I've never studyied Metaphysics and I don't see what the second law of thermodynamics has to do with ancient astrology and the constellations of the zodiac. We don't know who is responsdble for the existance of the Universe and we may never know but it is silly to think a personal savior is watching every thing we do. listens to our prayers, plans our destiny from a universe vast beyond human comprehension, Created the physical laws of the universe them violated those laws with fantastical miracles of resurrecting people from the dead. The idea of Jesus walking on water was the personification of the suns rays reflecting of the water. Jesus says "I am the light of the world " Means there is no other light and the sun is the only light that brings warmth and grows the crops and brings forth life.

An astronomer, activist, and novelist, Carl Sagan didn't hesitate to share his views on the world, notably giving several quotes on the topic of religion. The famous scientist was born Nov. 9, 1934, into a family of Reform Jews. His father, Samuel Sagan, reportedly wasn't very religious, but his mother, Rachel Gruber, actively practiced her faith. Faith is clearly not enough for many people. They crave hard evidence, scientific proof. They long for the scientific seal of approval, but are unwilling to put up with the rigorous standards of evidence that impart credibility to that seal.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.
I've never studyied Metaphysics and I don't see wh... (show quote)
I am truly baffled where you came up with the idea that we see God as "an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow." That is a completely childish idea, something that might be seen in a Looney Tunes cartoon or found in a children's comic book.


Professor David Berlinski earned his PhD in Philosophy from Princeton University. He was a research assistant in molecular biology at Columbia University, and was a research fellow at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA) in Austria and the Institut des Hautes Études Scientifiques (IHES) in France. Among many publications, Berlinski has written works on systems analysis, the history of differential topology, analytic philosophy, and the philosophy of mathematics. Berlinski describes himself as a secular Jew (atheist). He is also a critic of evolution theory (Darwinism).

In response to Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion, Berlinski wrote The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions. In the preface, he wrote the following:

“Has anyone provided proof of God’s inexistence? Not even close. Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here? Not even close. Have our sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life? Not even close. Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought? Close enough. Has rationalism and moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral? Not close enough. Has secularism in the terrible 20th century been a force for good? Not even close, to being close. Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy of thought and opinion in the sciences? Close enough. Does anything in the sciences or their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational? Not even in the ball park. Is scientific atheism a frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt? Dead on.”

Reply
May 26, 2018 01:55:08   #
Nickolai
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
I am truly baffled where you came up with the idea that we see God as "an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow." That is a completely childish idea, something that might be seen in a Looney Tunes cartoon or found in a children's comic book.


Professor David Berlinski earned his PhD in Philosophy from Princeton University. He was a research assistant in molecular biology at Columbia University, and was a research fellow at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA) in Austria and the Institut des Hautes Études Scientifiques (IHES) in France. Among many publications, Berlinski has written works on systems analysis, the history of differential topology, analytic philosophy, and the philosophy of mathematics. Berlinski describes himself as a secular Jew (atheist). He is also a critic of evolution theory (Darwinism).

In response to Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion, Berlinski wrote The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions. In the preface, he wrote the following:

“Has anyone provided proof of God’s inexistence? Not even close. Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here? Not even close. Have our sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life? Not even close. Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought? Close enough. Has rationalism and moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral? Not close enough. Has secularism in the terrible 20th century been a force for good? Not even close, to being close. Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy of thought and opinion in the sciences? Close enough. Does anything in the sciences or their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational? Not even in the ball park. Is scientific atheism a frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt? Dead on.”
I am truly baffled where you came up with the idea... (show quote)







https://youtu.be/Qfm0GCvsIVA
The over sized white male was a Carl Sagan quote not mine. The Christians I know and they are considerable --speak of their father In heaven so it seems they envision a male who created humans In his image. Carl was my age and this is what I-we grew up with, maybe the thinking has changed. I agree with Berlinski's first two lines. Nothing in science has proved that religion is irrational I agree, but history has proven Religion to be irrational. Throughout history Kings and high priests have colluded-- in order to control the masses. In Carl Sagan's book " A Demon Haunted World " he estimates there were at the time 2,500 religions In the world most with a creation myth. Thousands more have existed throughout recorded history, they have all died from old age or science.

Reply
May 26, 2018 07:53:21   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Nickolai wrote:
https://youtu.be/Qfm0GCvsIVA
The over sized white male was a Carl Sagan quote not mine. The Christians I know and they are considerable --speak of their father In heaven so it seems they envision a male who created humans In his image. Carl was my age and this is what I-we grew up with, maybe the thinking has changed. I agree with Berlinski's first two lines. Nothing in science has proved that religion is irrational I agree, but history has proven Religion to be irrational. Throughout history Kings and high priests have colluded-- in order to control the masses. In Carl Sagan's book " A Demon Haunted World " he estimates there were at the time 2,500 religions In the world most with a creation myth. Thousands more have existed throughout recorded history, they have all died from old age or science.
https://youtu.be/Qfm0GCvsIVA br The over sized wh... (show quote)


"Thousands more have existed throughout recorded history, they have all died from old age or science." - nick
Old age or disease is going to get you, nick.
You will be missed.

Reply
 
 
May 26, 2018 08:16:40   #
amadjuster Loc: Texas Panhandle
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"Thousands more have existed throughout recorded history, they have all died from old age or science." - nick
Old age or disease is going to get you, nick.
You will be missed.


And boy, will he be surprised!

Reply
May 26, 2018 08:56:01   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Nickolai wrote:
I've never studyied Metaphysics and I don't see what the second law of thermodynamics has to do with ancient astrology and the constellations of the zodiac. We don't know who is responsdble for the existance of the Universe and we may never know but it is silly to think a personal savior is watching every thing we do. listens to our prayers, plans our destiny from a universe vast beyond human comprehension, Created the physical laws of the universe them violated those laws with fantastical miracles of resurrecting people from the dead. The idea of Jesus walking on water was the personification of the suns rays reflecting of the water. Jesus says "I am the light of the world " Means there is no other light and the sun is the only light that brings warmth and grows the crops and brings forth life.

An astronomer, activist, and novelist, Carl Sagan didn't hesitate to share his views on the world, notably giving several quotes on the topic of religion. The famous scientist was born Nov. 9, 1934, into a family of Reform Jews. His father, Samuel Sagan, reportedly wasn't very religious, but his mother, Rachel Gruber, actively practiced her faith. Faith is clearly not enough for many people. They crave hard evidence, scientific proof. They long for the scientific seal of approval, but are unwilling to put up with the rigorous standards of evidence that impart credibility to that seal.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.
I've never studyied Metaphysics and I don't see wh... (show quote)


So, in your infinite wisdom, you have decided that it must be one or the other. There can be no in between because Nicolai has decreed it so. I suppose you think one must either be a Christian or an Atheist.

Reply
May 26, 2018 09:08:08   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Nickolai wrote:
"I've never studyied Metaphysics and I don't see what the second law of thermodynamics has to do with ancient astrology and the constellations of the zodiac. We don't know who is responsdble for the existance of the Universe and we may never know but it is silly to think a personal savior is watching every thing we do. listens to our prayers, plans our destiny from a universe vast beyond human comprehension, Created the physical laws of the universe them violated those laws with fantastical miracles of resurrecting people from the dead. The idea of Jesus walking on water was the personification of the suns rays reflecting of the water. Jesus says "I am the light of the world " Means there is no other light and the sun is the only light that brings warmth and grows the crops and brings forth life.

An astronomer, activist, and novelist, Carl Sagan didn't hesitate to share his views on the world, notably giving several quotes on the topic of religion. The famous scientist was born Nov. 9, 1934, into a family of Reform Jews. His father, Samuel Sagan, reportedly wasn't very religious, but his mother, Rachel Gruber, actively practiced her faith. Faith is clearly not enough for many people. They crave hard evidence, scientific proof. They long for the scientific seal of approval, but are unwilling to put up with the rigorous standards of evidence that impart credibility to that seal.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

You can knock, some simpleton religious views. Not hard to do. You being of unsound mind will never get it. LOL

Miracles do happen. The laws of nature are overcome. I have witnessed one in particular, and will never forget it.
So stay in your disbelief; that is probably to be. Your choice. Your problem.
You will be missed. LOL

Reply
May 26, 2018 12:33:58   #
Nickolai
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Nickolai wrote:
"I've never studyied Metaphysics and I don't see what the second law of thermodynamics has to do with ancient astrology and the constellations of the zodiac. We don't know who is responsdble for the existance of the Universe and we may never know but it is silly to think a personal savior is watching every thing we do. listens to our prayers, plans our destiny from a universe vast beyond human comprehension, Created the physical laws of the universe them violated those laws with fantastical miracles of resurrecting people from the dead. The idea of Jesus walking on water was the personification of the suns rays reflecting of the water. Jesus says "I am the light of the world " Means there is no other light and the sun is the only light that brings warmth and grows the crops and brings forth life.

An astronomer, activist, and novelist, Carl Sagan didn't hesitate to share his views on the world, notably giving several quotes on the topic of religion. The famous scientist was born Nov. 9, 1934, into a family of Reform Jews. His father, Samuel Sagan, reportedly wasn't very religious, but his mother, Rachel Gruber, actively practiced her faith. Faith is clearly not enough for many people. They crave hard evidence, scientific proof. They long for the scientific seal of approval, but are unwilling to put up with the rigorous standards of evidence that impart credibility to that seal.
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985]

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

You can knock, some simpleton religious views. Not hard to do. You being of unsound mind will never get it. LOL

Miracles do happen. The laws of nature are overcome. I have witnessed one in particular, and will never forget it.
So stay in your disbelief; that is probably to be. Your choice. Your problem.
You will be missed. LOL
Nickolai wrote: br "I've never studyied Metap... (show quote)










What was the miracle you witnessed, A lot of people believe in faith healing too but it has been proven over andover it is a scam. Watch the video of the one time child evangelist who trained by hismother and father to begin his carear at the age of five-- Marjoe Gortnor in the best scam ever he shows us his bag of tricks

Reply
 
 
May 26, 2018 12:54:00   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Nickolai wrote:
What was the miracle you witnessed, A lot of people believe in faith healing too but it has been proven over andover it is a scam. Watch the video of the one time child evangelist who trained by hismother and father to begin his carear at the age of five-- Marjoe Gortnor in the best scam ever he shows us his bag of tricks


Well since you asked, Nick;
I have a One dollar Casino token from Buffalo Bills Casino on the California Nevada border.
It went missing for a couple weeks. It must have fallen out of my pocket, and I couldn't find it.
One day my wife heard a klinking sound inside the clothes drier.
She pulled out a quilt, and in the corner of the perimeter hem; which was the same width as the coin, was a round object the size of the coin.
Not a single stitch was broken. We got a razor blade and cut it open.
There it was inside the quilt.

IMO; It was a sign, to let me know God is watching.
I still always keep the coin in my pocket with the rest of my change.

Reply
May 26, 2018 15:00:47   #
Nickolai
 
amadjuster wrote:
And boy, will he be surprised!







You know what ? I'm not worried in the least

Reply
May 26, 2018 15:12:41   #
Morgan
 
Loki wrote:
So, in your infinite wisdom, you have decided that it must be one or the other. There can be no in between because Nicolai has decreed it so. I suppose you think one must either be a Christian or an Atheist.



Rather open-minded of you, I'm impressed. Would you like to continue?

Reply
May 26, 2018 15:14:34   #
Nickolai
 
Loki wrote:
So, in your infinite wisdom, you have decided that it must be one or the other. There can be no in between because Nicolai has decreed it so. I suppose you think one must either be a Christian or an Atheist.






Not necessarily, there agnostic theism, agnostic atheism, and Deism, and atheism, There is always an in between, two sides to every coin

Reply
 
 
May 26, 2018 15:37:56   #
Nickolai
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Well since you asked, Nick;
I have a One dollar Casino token from Buffalo Bills Casino on the California Nevada border.
It went missing for a couple weeks. It must have fallen out of my pocket, and I couldn't find it.
One day my wife heard a klinking sound inside the clothes drier.
She pulled out a quilt, and in the corner of the perimeter hem; which was the same width as the coin, was a round object the size of the coin.
Not a single stitch was broken. We got a razor blade and cut it open.
There it was inside the quilt.

IMO; It was a sign, to let me know God is watching.
I still always keep the coin in my pocket with the rest of my change.
Well since you asked, Nick; br I have a One dollar... (show quote)






That's a good one.
My little sister was killed in a private plane crash in 1986 and years later my baby sister got in her car one day and turned the radio on, and there was Karen Carpenter singing, I'm on the top of the world looking down on creation and the only explanation I can find, Is the love that I've found ever since you've been around Your love's put me at the top of the world.

She is convinced it was a sign from the other world from her big sister and god, Some see the image of Jesus on the bark on a tree or their toast. One of my aunts fell very ill when she was a child and for two weeks the family prayed and prayed. The pastor came and prayed. Then one day she got out of bed and began dancing all around. of course the family members were convinced faith healed

Reply
May 26, 2018 16:10:20   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Nickolai wrote:
That's a good one.
My little sister was killed in a private plane crash in 1986 and years later my baby sister got in her car one day and turned the radio on, and there was Karen Carpenter singing, I'm on the top of the world looking down on creation and the only explanation I can find, Is the love that I've found ever since you've been around Your love's put me at the top of the world.

She is convinced it was a sign from the other world from her big sister and god, Some see the image of Jesus on the bark on a tree or their toast. One of my aunts fell very ill when she was a child and for two weeks the family prayed and prayed. The pastor came and prayed. Then one day she got out of bed and began dancing all around. of course the family members were convinced faith healed
That's a good one. br My little sister was kille... (show quote)


"She is convinced it was a sign from the other world from her big sister and god,"
There are so many ways God can communicate, and does for those that are open.
So many "coincidences".
You might open up a bit. Your choice.

Reply
May 26, 2018 16:33:46   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Nickolai wrote:
https://youtu.be/Qfm0GCvsIVA
The over sized white male was a Carl Sagan quote not mine. The Christians I know and they are considerable --speak of their father In heaven so it seems they envision a male who created humans In his image. Carl was my age and this is what I-we grew up with, maybe the thinking has changed. I agree with Berlinski's first two lines. Nothing in science has proved that religion is irrational I agree, but history has proven Religion to be irrational. Throughout history Kings and high priests have colluded-- in order to control the masses. In Carl Sagan's book " A Demon Haunted World " he estimates there were at the time 2,500 religions In the world most with a creation myth. Thousands more have existed throughout recorded history, they have all died from old age or science.
https://youtu.be/Qfm0GCvsIVA br The over sized wh... (show quote)
Carl Sagan was an astronomer, cosmologist and astrophysicist, he was also an atheist. Today there are many scientists in many fields who are either completely convinced of the existence of God or who, based on growing scientific evidence, are finding it increasingly difficult to dismiss the possibility of intelligent design.

So, we have come to an impasse. There is really no point in any further discussion of this matter. You are free to believe whatever you choose, as are we.

Reply
May 26, 2018 18:03:43   #
Nickolai
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Carl Sagan was an astronomer, cosmologist and astrophysicist, he was also an atheist. Today there are many scientists in many fields who are either completely convinced of the existence of God or who, based on growing scientific evidence, are finding it increasingly difficult to dismiss the possibility of intelligent design.

So, we have come to an impasse. There is really no point in any further discussion of this matter. You are free to believe whatever you choose, as are we.




That's true, while studies show that Scientist are less religious than the general population there are Scientist in many fields that retain their faith and that fits what I stated about human beings needing a spiritual faith to comfort them It seems to be innate in human populations, in every culture. Though I spent a lot of time as a child going to church on Sundays and read parts passages and at least one book In the bible complete I've never felt that need I know its real for a lot of people and that's why they keep the faith even in the absence of all evidence. Carl Sagan was an atheist for good reason. While there may be a providential deity responsible for the existence of the Universe but that it has thereafter ignored its creation is obvious

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