crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Will Those Who Say Catholics Are Going to Hell, Go to Hell?




I used this title to provoke those who maintained in another thread that Catholics are going to hell. I have some thoughts to offer on several Christian faiths.

I am very content being Catholic. I believe it represents the best way to eternal salvation and is most consistent with natural law.

One thing that I find very comforting in my faith, is its reliability. You can go to a Catholic mass anywhere in the world and find a ceremony that is familiar.

I have attended numerous Baptist services due to invitations from people I know and like and found them interesting but I something seemed to be missing from them. Then it hit me.

All of them were series of sermons, with singing and sometimes even dancing, in between. Now, there is nothing wrong with sermons and singing but, I’ve got to admit, the dancing did bother me a bit but, as a part of a celebration of God and His creation, it really should not cause concern.

I enjoy a good sermon and there are many hymns that I find very moving but I think a service should be more that simply sermons and songs. The Catholic mass is an actual ceremomy. It commemorates the Last Supper, betrayal, crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I have been to Episcopal masses and they are similar but I’ve never been to Lutheran or Methodist services so I can’t comment on them. But I understand that much of this nonsense about Catholics going to hell comes from Baptists & Baptist ministers. To them I say, maybe you’re going to hell.

Anyone who has driven in the South has seen numerous billboards with ads for different churches. Often, they have a picture of the pastor and spouse and sometimes their families with invitations to attend their services. I live in Jacksonville Florida and I have begun to question whether those churches are about God and Jesus or really just personality cults.

So before any of you anti-Catholic bigots begin spouting off about Catholicism, answer a few basic questions about your faith.

1. What is it?
2. What does it stand for?
3. What are its principles?
4. Who is your pastor?
5. What are his credentials?
6. Did he attend divinity school.
7. Did he attend a seminary?
8. For how long?
9. Did he receive a degree?

These are just for starters but until you do, spare us please your sanctimonious denigrations of Catholicism. It was an established church a long time before your religion even existed.

glibona Loc: Nevada

Amen...thanks for the insightful and very much to the point post.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

I have no problem with people practicing the Baptist religion or any other. I do mind some of these other supposed Christians saying I'm going to hell because of my faith. Catholicism was producing books of historic importance centuries before the founders of those other faiths were even gleams in their parents' eyes.

I'm hoping one in particular from OPP responds. I'll lay him out in lavender.

out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State

We will be judged by God individually, based on the criteria he gave. If we are saved, it is through faith in the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ, not through works, lets we should boast. He is no respecter of persons (or degrees) as ALL HAVE SINNED, and fall short of the Glory of God, Period.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

There's only ONE reason why Catholics or anyone else for that matter will go to hell. That person has not been saved by freely accepting what Jesus Christ did for them on the cross.

...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Romans 3:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

I beg to differ. We have all sinned but Jesus death allows us to prevail over Satan but we must do works consistent with his teachings. That is how we prevail. Other than that, I agree.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Then you're negating what He did on the cross when He said, "It is finished!"

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

No, it's much more than just that. We must avoid sin and try to do good works. Look at your excerpt from Romans right above.

out of the woods Loc: to hell and gone New York State

All of our works or goodness is as filthy rags. Christ's Blood alone is accepted as a covering for our sin. When God looks upon those who accept this, He sees Christ, without this we are naked and covered in sin, unacceptable.
Good works should be evident in a Christians life, but it does not save us, only Jesus can do that.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Absolutely not. That dying declaration is interpreted in many ways. I take it as, "My part is over." Now, we have to do our part.

I really don't want to get into any extended, deep theologic discussion about the place of Jesus but rather one about the statement that all Catholics wil go to hell.

And BTW, I thought you were one of the people who agreed with that statement. If you were, answer my questions.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

My statement was...and I quote...

There's only ONE reason why Catholics or anyone else for that matter will go to hell. That person has not been saved by freely accepting what Jesus Christ did for them on the cross.

...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Romans 3:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

We have some fundamental disagreement. Yes, Jesus showed us the way, but we've got to go that way. That's up to us. Isn't it in the gospels that Jesus is the way & the light?

But a theological discussion isn't my purpose. It's my purpose to confront the purveyors of the belief that all Catholics will go to hell because of our belief system. If you agree with that, then answer my questions.

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

And you read my reply. I've answered your statement. If it is your position that all Catholics will go to Hell because of their beliefs, then answer my questions.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Are you dense? I've CLEARLY stated my position of who will go to hell. . But to answer your "questions" -- By the way, it appears that all you’re looking for is a fight…

crazyliberterian said: So before any of you anti-Catholic bigots begin spouting off about Catholicism, answer a few basic questions about your faith:

1. What is it? I am a bible believing disciple of Jesus Christ
2. What does it stand for? First the bad news: 1) Spiritually speaking we are all sinners deserving of hell for our sin against a holy God; 2) Our sin has kept us from His presence and eternal life; 3) No one can earn his or her way into the presence of God because there is “no one righteous;” 4) Our best human efforts to please God are “as filthy rags.” Until we know the bad news, we can’t truly appreciate the good news. Until we understand that we are destined for hell because of our sin, we cannot appreciate all that Jesus did for us on the cross. If we don’t realize how hopeless we are, we won’t recognize the great hope Jesus offers (Hebrews 6:19). Unless we recognize that we are sinners, we can’t appreciate a Savior. So now the good news is the joyful proclamation of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and of the consequent amnesty and liberation from sin which men and women may enjoy through faith in Him.
3. What are its principles? If you must know:
1. I believe that there is one living and true GOD, eternally existing in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, equal in power and glory; that this triune God created all, upholds all, and governs all things. (Genesis 1:1; Deuteronomy 6:4; Matthew 28:19; John 10:30; Hebrews 9:14)
2. I believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God, fully inspired without error in the original manuscripts, and the infallible rule of faith and practice. The Word of God is the foundation upon which I operate and is the basis for which I am governed. I believe that the Word of God supersedes any earthly law that is contrary to the Holy Scriptures. (Isaiah 28:13; Nehemiah 8:8; John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Hebrews 4:12; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 2 Peter 1:21)
3. I believe in the person of God the Father, an Infinite, personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power and love; that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men; that He hears and answers prayer; and that He saves from sin and death all those who come to Him through Jesus Christ. (Deuteronomy 33:27; Psalms 90:2; Psalms 102:27; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Titus 1:3)
4. I believe in the person of Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, conceived by the Holy Spirit. I believe in His virgin birth, sinless life, miracles and teachings, his substitutionary atoning death, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, perpetual intercession for His people and personal, visible return to earth. (Isaiah 7:14; Micah 5:2; Matthew 1:23; Mark 16:19; Luke 1:34-35; John 1:1-2; John 8:58; John 11:25; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 1:2; Revelation 1:8)
5. I believe in the person of the Holy Spirit, Who came forth from the Father and Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, and to regenerate, sanctify and empower for ministry all who believe in Christ; (Acts 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:18; John 16:8-11; Romans 15:13,16; Hebrews 9:14)
6. I believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer in Jesus Christ and that He is an abiding helper, teacher, and guide. (John 14:16-17, 16:8-11)
7. I believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit and in the exercise of all Biblical gifts of the Spirit. (1 Corinthians 14)
8. I believe that all people are sinners by nature and, therefore, are under condemnation; that God regenerates based upon faith by the Holy Spirit, those who repent of their sins and confess Jesus Christ as Lord. (Acts 8:15-17; Titus 3:5)
9. I believe in the universal church, the living spiritual body, of which Christ is the head and all who are born again are members. (1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Ephesians 4:15-16)
10. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ committed two ordinances to the church: (a) full immersion water baptism, and (b) the Lord's Supper. (Matthew 28:19; Acts 2:38; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26)
11. I believe also in the laying on of hands for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the receiving of the perpetuity of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 6:6, 8:17; 1 Timothy 4:14)
13. I believe in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ which is His personal, visible return to earth and the establishment of His millennial kingdom, in the resurrection of the body, the final judgment and eternal blessing of the righteous and endless suffering of the wicked. (Matthew 16:27; Acts 1:11; Revelation 19:11-16, 20: 11-15)
14. I believe in a literal Heaven and a literal Hell and that all those who place their faith, hope and trust in Jesus Christ will spend eternity in Heaven with the Lord, while those who reject Jesus’ free gift of salvation will spend eternity separated from the Lord in Hell. (Matthew 5:3, 25:31-34; Hebrews 12:23; 1 Peter 1:4; Psalm 9:17; Matthew 5:22, 18:9; Luke 12:5)
16. I believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church where all believers will meet the Lord in the air and be taken out of this world prior to the Tribulation that will come upon the earth. (Matthew 24:29-31; Luke 21:36; Romans 1:18, 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; 2 Peter 2:7-9; Revelation 5:7-10, 7:13-14)
4. Who is your pastor? Greg Tyra
5. What are his credentials? He follows the teaching of The Holy Spirit and the Bible
6. Did he attend divinity school? Doesn’t matter, the Holy Spirit guides him (and me): But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ. 1 John 2:27
7. Did he attend a seminary? See number 6
8. For how long? Eternity
9. Did he receive a degree? See number 6

pafret Loc: Northeast

You keep believing this and you are guilty of the sin of presumption. In addition to belief in Jesus Christ you must lead a moral life. St. Thomas Aquinas once said "I do not understand how a man with mortal sin can smile"