One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Faith, Religion, Spirituality
Roman Catholicism And Islam: Bound Together By Pontifical Praise
Page 1 of 5 next> last>>
Oct 24, 2017 04:48:53   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity of the Islamic Qur'an, clearly cannot be one: Yahweh has a Son: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" (1 John:4:14).

Allah has no son: "...Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty..." (Sura 17:111); "Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with him" (Sura 23:91).

In a recent interview with a French Catholic newspaper, the pontiff, Pope Francis, suggested it was not productive to think of Islam as a threat and pointed to its shared roots with Christianity “It is true that the idea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam," he said. "However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest."

The above title has created controversy among Catholics (and some evangelicals) who have never studied the background of either of these earthbound religions. It reflects the often repeated ambition of the Pontifical Council for "Inter-religious Dialogue." Rome has been pursuing the fertilization of this "common ground" with Islam for decades, per the 1994 Vatican publication, "Recognize the Spiritual Bonds Which Unite Us: 16 Years of Christian-Muslim Dialogue. This is what the Roman Catholic Church has long sought.

There is confusion created by the Church of Rome in her zeal to capture control of the spiritual voice of all the world's religions, she speaks out of both sides of her ecumenical mouth. In her relationship to Islam, she has made theological overtures contradicting Christian orthodoxy, but appallingly worse, there are much deeper existent ties fettering the two religions. Apprehend the commonalities between these two faiths.

Despite, clear and critical differences between the biblical God and Allah, the Roman Catholic Church accepts them as one and the same God. The following quote is from Vatican II:

"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has also spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own.

Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly evoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting" (Nostra Aetate, Vatican II).

Careful consideration of the above quote (taken from what the Roman Catholic Church claims is an infallible council) no Christian can escape realizing what truly binds Catholicism and Islam together is: They both have an unbiblical Jesus who cannot save their souls. The Qur'an teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross: "And because of the Jews saying, We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - They slew him not, nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain" (Qur'an Sura 4:157).

Vatican II gives Muslims credit for "venerating" Jesus, but it is a "another Jesus." Sadly, Catholicism also has a false Christ, teaching that His death on the cross was not sufficient for our salvation. They say His sacrifice (which, according to the Scriptures, was offered once for all to take away our sins completely (Hebrews: 9:28) be continually "re-presented" as a daily sacrifice for sins, thousands of times, around the world, but Catholics then, must also expiate their own sins through sufferings on earth and after death in purgatory. This is "another gospel" than that taught by Holy Scripture.

Finally, Vatican II spells out clearly what both Islam and Catholicism regard as their only hope for salvation: "...they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting." This is works salvation.

In Islam, a person is accountable for every thought, word, and deed. His/her life is to be lived pleasing to Allah as found in the Qur'an and the hadith and shari'a, which is the body of rules covering all Islamic religious, political, social and domestic life. Breaking such laws involves various temporal punishments. At the Last Judgment Allah will determine one's eternal destiny by weighing one's good and evil works on the divine scale: "Then those whose scales are heavy with good deeds, they are the successful. And those whose scales are light are those who lose their souls, in hell abiding" (Qur'an Sura 23:102,103). The hadith vividly describes the tortures of hell.

James McCarthy's video, titled "Catholicism: Crisis of Faith" displays revealing interviews of worshipers leaving Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. He asks them on what basis they expect to get to heaven. Only one made any reference to Jesus. Their response was they felt they were pretty good people, and were fairly confident that their good deeds outweighed their bad ones.

Although the Catholic Church states that it is by God's grace that one can enter heaven, they change that to "grace enables one to do the works which qualify one for heaven." In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, they "obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ" (paragraph 1821) and they "can merit for themselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life" (paragraph 2027).

Pope John Paul II addressed a Catholic community in Turkey with these words: "... it is now urgent, precisely today when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite us."

No! What is "urgent" is that Catholics and Muslims be set free from the spiritual bondage of the impossible task of qualifying for heaven by their own good deeds, and their hearts opened to receive the free gift of eternal life (Romans :6:23) through faith in what Jesus Christ has already completed on their behave.

The similarity between Islam and Catholicism starts at birth, Catholicism and Islam each exceed one billion, nearly all of whom enter their respective faiths as infants. More than 16 million babies are baptized into the Roman Catholic Church each year, and are baptized as Catholics because their parents were Catholics. That's the primary way the faith is propagated, rather than personal belief, for babies have no understanding of the concept of faith.

All children born into a Muslim family are automatically Muslims. Their official "confirmation" follows as soon as they are able to confess the shahada ("There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger"). This baby-oriented process for increasing their ranks has been a motivating factor in the Vatican/Saudi co-sponsored lobby against United Nations endeavors to introduce contraception for population control, especially in third-world countries.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today; Catholicism is the largest religious body among those professing to be Christian. If the number of followers was a good measure for selecting a religion, then Islam and Catholicism would both qualify, however, the Bible has no such yardstick. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which enter. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew:7:13-14).

People are aware of the veneration and worship of Mary among Roman Catholics, but the same deference exists among Muslims. A chapter in the Qur'an is named after Mary ("Surah Maryam"). From Cairo to Bombay to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina, multi- thousands of Muslims have congregated to processions carrying her statues and where her apparitions have appeared. She is esteemed above the most revered women of the Muslim faith, including Muhammad's two favorite wives, Khadija and Aisha, and his daughter Fatima.

The hadith teaches that Muhammad selected Mary as his first wife upon entrance into Paradise. A popular Catholic apparition of Mary is referred to as Our Lady of Fatima, the name of Muhammad's daughter.

Catholic and Islamic prayers are similar. For the Muslim, praying to Allah five times a day is an act of obedience; the prayers are always repetitive. As one former Muslim puts it, "It's hardly intimate communication with Allah; ...it's done to escape the punishment due those who neglect prayer."

Most prayers prayed by Catholics are also rote and repetitive, i.e., saying the rosary. Repeating 16 "Our Father's" and 153 "Hail Mary's" is not personal communication. When a Catholic goes to confession the priest assigns rosaries as punishment, or penance, for one's sins. A prayer to God should hardly be considered a form of punishment!

Prayer beads were a part of Islamic devotion to Allah long before an apparition of the Blessed Lady taught St. Dominic to pray the rosary beads in the thirteenth century. Although prayer beads are a stock item in ancient and modern paganism, they are never used in the Bible.

Catholics and Muslims use pilgrimages to obtain God's favor. The hadj, one of the five pillars of Islam, is a required (one-time) journey to Mecca. For Catholics, pilgrimages are historically acts of religious purification, often induced by the promise of indulgences. Multi-millions of Catholics travel yearly to hundreds of shrines dedicated to Mary throughout the world. The Crusades were indulgence-stimulated attempts to regain Jerusalem from the infidel Muslims to re-establish Catholic pilgrimages. The Church of Rome offered the crusaders full pardon from purgatory if they died trying to liberate the Holy Land. Similarly, Islam offers assurance of Paradise to those who die in religious battles (jihad), including suicide bombings.

Roman Catholicism recognizes Allah as the God of the Bible. In 1985, Pope John Paul II declared to an enraptured audience of thousands of Muslim youths, "Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common as believers and as human beings....We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God... ." But how is that possible?

Historically, Allah was the supreme pagan idol, of 350 idols worshiped by Muhammad's Quraysh tribe.

Catholicism's zeal to relate to Islam creates wonder about its own perspective on the God of the Bible. In the "Sacred Scripture," God is referred to as Yahweh about 9,000 times. Never is He thus referred to in the Qur'an. He reveals himself in the Scriptures as "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob/Israel." He is the Father of the Jews, "the God of Israel."

In the Qur'an, however, Allah never refers to himself that way. God calls the Jews His "chosen people." He gave them the land of Israel as a heritage "forever": "And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ezekiel: 37:25). God's covenant is with Isaac (Genesis 17: 19-21), while Muslims believe Allah's covenant is with Ishmael, son of the Egyptian slave, Hagar.

Allah has a completely different attitude toward the Jews than does the God of the Bible. Allah commands his followers to "Take not the Jews...for friends" (Qur'an Sura 5:51). The Jews are in the Qur'an called "the people of the book" (i.e., the Bible), and if they refuse to convert to Islam, they must pay a tribute tax, and become subservient to them: "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" (Sura 9:29). According to the hadith, which Muslims regard as authoritative as the Qur'an, Muhammad says, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill all of them."

The hadith (tradition of Muhammad) says that on the Day of Judgment, Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say, "Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him." Roman Catholicism has its own well-documented history of slaughtering the Jews.

Whereas God the Father declared from heaven concerning Jesus, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matthew: 3:17), Allah of the Qur'an condemns such a belief: "...the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth" (Sura 9:30 Qur'an)!

Catholicism approves of and praises Islam, yet has eternal curses from the 16th century Council of Trent still in effect against all Protestants and Christians who do not unite with them.

Truly, this is not Christianity.

Reply
Oct 24, 2017 09:16:27   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Zemirah wrote:
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity of the Islamic Qur'an, clearly cannot be one: Yahweh has a Son: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" (1 John:4:14).

Allah has no son: "...Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty..." (Sura 17:111); "Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with him" (Sura 23:91).

In a recent interview with a French Catholic newspaper, the pontiff, Pope Francis, suggested it was not productive to think of Islam as a threat and pointed to its shared roots with Christianity “It is true that the idea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam," he said. "However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest."

The above title has created controversy among Catholics (and some evangelicals) who have never studied the background of either of these earthbound religions. It reflects the often repeated ambition of the Pontifical Council for "Inter-religious Dialogue." Rome has been pursuing the fertilization of this "common ground" with Islam for decades, per the 1994 Vatican publication, "Recognize the Spiritual Bonds Which Unite Us: 16 Years of Christian-Muslim Dialogue. This is what the Roman Catholic Church has long sought.

There is confusion created by the Church of Rome in her zeal to capture control of the spiritual voice of all the world's religions, she speaks out of both sides of her ecumenical mouth. In her relationship to Islam, she has made theological overtures contradicting Christian orthodoxy, but appallingly worse, there are much deeper existent ties fettering the two religions. Apprehend the commonalities between these two faiths.

Despite, clear and critical differences between the biblical God and Allah, the Roman Catholic Church accepts them as one and the same God. The following quote is from Vatican II:

"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has also spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own.

Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly evoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting" (Nostra Aetate, Vatican II).

Careful consideration of the above quote (taken from what the Roman Catholic Church claims is an infallible council) no Christian can escape realizing what truly binds Catholicism and Islam together is: They both have an unbiblical Jesus who cannot save their souls. The Qur'an teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross: "And because of the Jews saying, We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - They slew him not, nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain" (Qur'an Sura 4:157).

Vatican II gives Muslims credit for "venerating" Jesus, but it is a "another Jesus." Sadly, Catholicism also has a false Christ, teaching that His death on the cross was not sufficient for our salvation. They say His sacrifice (which, according to the Scriptures, was offered once for all to take away our sins completely (Hebrews: 9:28) be continually "re-presented" as a daily sacrifice for sins, thousands of times, around the world, but Catholics then, must also expiate their own sins through sufferings on earth and after death in purgatory. This is "another gospel" than that taught by Holy Scripture.

Finally, Vatican II spells out clearly what both Islam and Catholicism regard as their only hope for salvation: "...they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting." This is works salvation.

In Islam, a person is accountable for every thought, word, and deed. His/her life is to be lived pleasing to Allah as found in the Qur'an and the hadith and shari'a, which is the body of rules covering all Islamic religious, political, social and domestic life. Breaking such laws involves various temporal punishments. At the Last Judgment Allah will determine one's eternal destiny by weighing one's good and evil works on the divine scale: "Then those whose scales are heavy with good deeds, they are the successful. And those whose scales are light are those who lose their souls, in hell abiding" (Qur'an Sura 23:102,103). The hadith vividly describes the tortures of hell.

James McCarthy's video, titled "Catholicism: Crisis of Faith" displays revealing interviews of worshipers leaving Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. He asks them on what basis they expect to get to heaven. Only one made any reference to Jesus. Their response was they felt they were pretty good people, and were fairly confident that their good deeds outweighed their bad ones.

Although the Catholic Church states that it is by God's grace that one can enter heaven, they change that to "grace enables one to do the works which qualify one for heaven." In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, they "obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ" (paragraph 1821) and they "can merit for themselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life" (paragraph 2027).

Pope John Paul II addressed a Catholic community in Turkey with these words: "... it is now urgent, precisely today when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite us."

No! What is "urgent" is that Catholics and Muslims be set free from the spiritual bondage of the impossible task of qualifying for heaven by their own good deeds, and their hearts opened to receive the free gift of eternal life (Romans :6:23) through faith in what Jesus Christ has already completed on their behave.

The similarity between Islam and Catholicism starts at birth, Catholicism and Islam each exceed one billion, nearly all of whom enter their respective faiths as infants. More than 16 million babies are baptized into the Roman Catholic Church each year, and are baptized as Catholics because their parents were Catholics. That's the primary way the faith is propagated, rather than personal belief, for babies have no understanding of the concept of faith.

All children born into a Muslim family are automatically Muslims. Their official "confirmation" follows as soon as they are able to confess the shahada ("There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger"). This baby-oriented process for increasing their ranks has been a motivating factor in the Vatican/Saudi co-sponsored lobby against United Nations endeavors to introduce contraception for population control, especially in third-world countries.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today; Catholicism is the largest religious body among those professing to be Christian. If the number of followers was a good measure for selecting a religion, then Islam and Catholicism would both qualify, however, the Bible has no such yardstick. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which enter. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew:7:13-14).

People are aware of the veneration and worship of Mary among Roman Catholics, but the same deference exists among Muslims. A chapter in the Qur'an is named after Mary ("Surah Maryam"). From Cairo to Bombay to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina, multi- thousands of Muslims have congregated to processions carrying her statues and where her apparitions have appeared. She is esteemed above the most revered women of the Muslim faith, including Muhammad's two favorite wives, Khadija and Aisha, and his daughter Fatima.

The hadith teaches that Muhammad selected Mary as his first wife upon entrance into Paradise. A popular Catholic apparition of Mary is referred to as Our Lady of Fatima, the name of Muhammad's daughter.

Catholic and Islamic prayers are similar. For the Muslim, praying to Allah five times a day is an act of obedience; the prayers are always repetitive. As one former Muslim puts it, "It's hardly intimate communication with Allah; ...it's done to escape the punishment due those who neglect prayer."

Most prayers prayed by Catholics are also rote and repetitive, i.e., saying the rosary. Repeating 16 "Our Father's" and 153 "Hail Mary's" is not personal communication. When a Catholic goes to confession the priest assigns rosaries as punishment, or penance, for one's sins. A prayer to God should hardly be considered a form of punishment!

Prayer beads were a part of Islamic devotion to Allah long before an apparition of the Blessed Lady taught St. Dominic to pray the rosary beads in the thirteenth century. Although prayer beads are a stock item in ancient and modern paganism, they are never used in the Bible.

Catholics and Muslims use pilgrimages to obtain God's favor. The hadj, one of the five pillars of Islam, is a required (one-time) journey to Mecca. For Catholics, pilgrimages are historically acts of religious purification, often induced by the promise of indulgences. Multi-millions of Catholics travel yearly to hundreds of shrines dedicated to Mary throughout the world. The Crusades were indulgence-stimulated attempts to regain Jerusalem from the infidel Muslims to re-establish Catholic pilgrimages. The Church of Rome offered the crusaders full pardon from purgatory if they died trying to liberate the Holy Land. Similarly, Islam offers assurance of Paradise to those who die in religious battles (jihad), including suicide bombings.

Roman Catholicism recognizes Allah as the God of the Bible. In 1985, Pope John Paul II declared to an enraptured audience of thousands of Muslim youths, "Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common as believers and as human beings....We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God... ." But how is that possible?

Historically, Allah was the supreme pagan idol, of 350 idols worshiped by Muhammad's Quraysh tribe.

Catholicism's zeal to relate to Islam creates wonder about its own perspective on the God of the Bible. In the "Sacred Scripture," God is referred to as Yahweh about 9,000 times. Never is He thus referred to in the Qur'an. He reveals himself in the Scriptures as "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob/Israel." He is the Father of the Jews, "the God of Israel."

In the Qur'an, however, Allah never refers to himself that way. God calls the Jews His "chosen people." He gave them the land of Israel as a heritage "forever": "And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ezekiel: 37:25). God's covenant is with Isaac (Genesis 17: 19-21), while Muslims believe Allah's covenant is with Ishmael, son of the Egyptian slave, Hagar.

Allah has a completely different attitude toward the Jews than does the God of the Bible. Allah commands his followers to "Take not the Jews...for friends" (Qur'an Sura 5:51). The Jews are in the Qur'an called "the people of the book" (i.e., the Bible), and if they refuse to convert to Islam, they must pay a tribute tax, and become subservient to them: "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" (Sura 9:29). According to the hadith, which Muslims regard as authoritative as the Qur'an, Muhammad says, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill all of them."

The hadith (tradition of Muhammad) says that on the Day of Judgment, Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say, "Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him." Roman Catholicism has its own well-documented history of slaughtering the Jews.

Whereas God the Father declared from heaven concerning Jesus, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matthew: 3:17), Allah of the Qur'an condemns such a belief: "...the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth" (Sura 9:30 Qur'an)!

Catholicism approves of and praises Islam, yet has eternal curses from the 16th century Council of Trent still in effect against all Protestants and Christians who do not unite with them.

Truly, this is not Christianity.
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity... (show quote)


Can't wait to see what "Doc" has to say....how 'bout you?

Reply
Oct 24, 2017 13:51:42   #
maryla
 
Not all Catholics are in agreement with this Pope. His views that there is no difference between God and Allah amaze me to read and I am in complete agreement in that that is how Catholics are to think. I am a staunch Catholic and believe the pope to be in error on this. Matthew 24:24 "False Messiahs and false prophets will arise;..."

Maybe its just a sign of our times and this pope was just bamboozled by the political correctness of the prior administration but this Catholic will never succumb to this teaching...
Zemirah wrote:
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity of the Islamic Qur'an, clearly cannot be one: Yahweh has a Son: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world"

I personally go to Matthew 24:24 (1 John:4:14).

Allah has no son: "...Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty..." (Sura 17:111); "Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with him" (Sura 23:91).

In a recent interview with a French Catholic newspaper, the pontiff, Pope Francis, suggested it was not productive to think of Islam as a threat and pointed to its shared roots with Christianity “It is true that the idea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam," he said. "However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest."

The above title has created controversy among Catholics (and some evangelicals) who have never studied the background of either of these earthbound religions. It reflects the often repeated ambition of the Pontifical Council for "Inter-religious Dialogue." Rome has been pursuing the fertilization of this "common ground" with Islam for decades, per the 1994 Vatican publication, "Recognize the Spiritual Bonds Which Unite Us: 16 Years of Christian-Muslim Dialogue. This is what the Roman Catholic Church has long sought.

There is confusion created by the Church of Rome in her zeal to capture control of the spiritual voice of all the world's religions, she speaks out of both sides of her ecumenical mouth. In her relationship to Islam, she has made theological overtures contradicting Christian orthodoxy, but appallingly worse, there are much deeper existent ties fettering the two religions. Apprehend the commonalities between these two faiths.

Despite, clear and critical differences between the biblical God and Allah, the Roman Catholic Church accepts them as one and the same God. The following quote is from Vatican II:

"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has also spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own.

Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly evoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting" (Nostra Aetate, Vatican II).

Careful consideration of the above quote (taken from what the Roman Catholic Church claims is an infallible council) no Christian can escape realizing what truly binds Catholicism and Islam together is: They both have an unbiblical Jesus who cannot save their souls. The Qur'an teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross: "And because of the Jews saying, We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - They slew him not, nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain" (Qur'an Sura 4:157).

Vatican II gives Muslims credit for "venerating" Jesus, but it is a "another Jesus." Sadly, Catholicism also has a false Christ, teaching that His death on the cross was not sufficient for our salvation. They say His sacrifice (which, according to the Scriptures, was offered once for all to take away our sins completely (Hebrews: 9:28) be continually "re-presented" as a daily sacrifice for sins, thousands of times, around the world, but Catholics then, must also expiate their own sins through sufferings on earth and after death in purgatory. This is "another gospel" than that taught by Holy Scripture.

Finally, Vatican II spells out clearly what both Islam and Catholicism regard as their only hope for salvation: "...they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting." This is works salvation.

In Islam, a person is accountable for every thought, word, and deed. His/her life is to be lived pleasing to Allah as found in the Qur'an and the hadith and shari'a, which is the body of rules covering all Islamic religious, political, social and domestic life. Breaking such laws involves various temporal punishments. At the Last Judgment Allah will determine one's eternal destiny by weighing one's good and evil works on the divine scale: "Then those whose scales are heavy with good deeds, they are the successful. And those whose scales are light are those who lose their souls, in hell abiding" (Qur'an Sura 23:102,103). The hadith vividly describes the tortures of hell.

James McCarthy's video, titled "Catholicism: Crisis of Faith" displays revealing interviews of worshipers leaving Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. He asks them on what basis they expect to get to heaven. Only one made any reference to Jesus. Their response was they felt they were pretty good people, and were fairly confident that their good deeds outweighed their bad ones.

Although the Catholic Church states that it is by God's grace that one can enter heaven, they change that to "grace enables one to do the works which qualify one for heaven." In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, they "obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ" (paragraph 1821) and they "can merit for themselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life" (paragraph 2027).

Pope John Paul II addressed a Catholic community in Turkey with these words: "... it is now urgent, precisely today when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite us."

No! What is "urgent" is that Catholics and Muslims be set free from the spiritual bondage of the impossible task of qualifying for heaven by their own good deeds, and their hearts opened to receive the free gift of eternal life (Romans :6:23) through faith in what Jesus Christ has already completed on their behave.

The similarity between Islam and Catholicism starts at birth, Catholicism and Islam each exceed one billion, nearly all of whom enter their respective faiths as infants. More than 16 million babies are baptized into the Roman Catholic Church each year, and are baptized as Catholics because their parents were Catholics. That's the primary way the faith is propagated, rather than personal belief, for babies have no understanding of the concept of faith.

All children born into a Muslim family are automatically Muslims. Their official "confirmation" follows as soon as they are able to confess the shahada ("There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger"). This baby-oriented process for increasing their ranks has been a motivating factor in the Vatican/Saudi co-sponsored lobby against United Nations endeavors to introduce contraception for population control, especially in third-world countries.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today; Catholicism is the largest religious body among those professing to be Christian. If the number of followers was a good measure for selecting a religion, then Islam and Catholicism would both qualify, however, the Bible has no such yardstick. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which enter. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew:7:13-14).

People are aware of the veneration and worship of Mary among Roman Catholics, but the same deference exists among Muslims. A chapter in the Qur'an is named after Mary ("Surah Maryam"). From Cairo to Bombay to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina, multi- thousands of Muslims have congregated to processions carrying her statues and where her apparitions have appeared. She is esteemed above the most revered women of the Muslim faith, including Muhammad's two favorite wives, Khadija and Aisha, and his daughter Fatima.

The hadith teaches that Muhammad selected Mary as his first wife upon entrance into Paradise. A popular Catholic apparition of Mary is referred to as Our Lady of Fatima, the name of Muhammad's daughter.

Catholic and Islamic prayers are similar. For the Muslim, praying to Allah five times a day is an act of obedience; the prayers are always repetitive. As one former Muslim puts it, "It's hardly intimate communication with Allah; ...it's done to escape the punishment due those who neglect prayer."

Most prayers prayed by Catholics are also rote and repetitive, i.e., saying the rosary. Repeating 16 "Our Father's" and 153 "Hail Mary's" is not personal communication. When a Catholic goes to confession the priest assigns rosaries as punishment, or penance, for one's sins. A prayer to God should hardly be considered a form of punishment!

Prayer beads were a part of Islamic devotion to Allah long before an apparition of the Blessed Lady taught St. Dominic to pray the rosary beads in the thirteenth century. Although prayer beads are a stock item in ancient and modern paganism, they are never used in the Bible.

Catholics and Muslims use pilgrimages to obtain God's favor. The hadj, one of the five pillars of Islam, is a required (one-time) journey to Mecca. For Catholics, pilgrimages are historically acts of religious purification, often induced by the promise of indulgences. Multi-millions of Catholics travel yearly to hundreds of shrines dedicated to Mary throughout the world. The Crusades were indulgence-stimulated attempts to regain Jerusalem from the infidel Muslims to re-establish Catholic pilgrimages. The Church of Rome offered the crusaders full pardon from purgatory if they died trying to liberate the Holy Land. Similarly, Islam offers assurance of Paradise to those who die in religious battles (jihad), including suicide bombings.

Roman Catholicism recognizes Allah as the God of the Bible. In 1985, Pope John Paul II declared to an enraptured audience of thousands of Muslim youths, "Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common as believers and as human beings....We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God... ." But how is that possible?

Historically, Allah was the supreme pagan idol, of 350 idols worshiped by Muhammad's Quraysh tribe.

Catholicism's zeal to relate to Islam creates wonder about its own perspective on the God of the Bible. In the "Sacred Scripture," God is referred to as Yahweh about 9,000 times. Never is He thus referred to in the Qur'an. He reveals himself in the Scriptures as "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob/Israel." He is the Father of the Jews, "the God of Israel."

In the Qur'an, however, Allah never refers to himself that way. God calls the Jews His "chosen people." He gave them the land of Israel as a heritage "forever": "And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ezekiel: 37:25). God's covenant is with Isaac (Genesis 17: 19-21), while Muslims believe Allah's covenant is with Ishmael, son of the Egyptian slave, Hagar.

Allah has a completely different attitude toward the Jews than does the God of the Bible. Allah commands his followers to "Take not the Jews...for friends" (Qur'an Sura 5:51). The Jews are in the Qur'an called "the people of the book" (i.e., the Bible), and if they refuse to convert to Islam, they must pay a tribute tax, and become subservient to them: "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" (Sura 9:29). According to the hadith, which Muslims regard as authoritative as the Qur'an, Muhammad says, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill all of them."

The hadith (tradition of Muhammad) says that on the Day of Judgment, Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say, "Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him." Roman Catholicism has its own well-documented history of slaughtering the Jews.

Whereas God the Father declared from heaven concerning Jesus, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matthew: 3:17), Allah of the Qur'an condemns such a belief: "...the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth" (Sura 9:30 Qur'an)!

Catholicism approves of and praises Islam, yet has eternal curses from the 16th century Council of Trent still in effect against all Protestants and Christians who do not unite with them.

Truly, this is not Christianity.
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Oct 24, 2017 13:57:26   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
maryla wrote:
Not all Catholics are in agreement with this Pope. His views that there is no difference between God and Allah amaze me to read and I am in complete agreement in that that is how Catholics are to think. I am a staunch Catholic and believe the pope to be in error on this. Matthew 24:24 "False Messiahs and false prophets will arise;..."

Maybe its just a sign of our times and this pope was just bamboozled by the political correctness of the prior administration but this Catholic will never succumb to this teaching...
Not all Catholics are in agreement with this Pope.... (show quote)


...so you don't believe in an inerrant of the pope?

Reply
Oct 24, 2017 14:08:50   #
maryla
 
Obviously not. I don't think any other pope has held this view. And that's what it is.....just a view!
Dummy Boy wrote:
...so you don't believe in an inerrant of the pope?

Reply
Oct 24, 2017 19:51:13   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Dummy Boy wrote:
Can't wait to see what "Doc" has to say....how 'bout you?


It's unfortunate that he seems to be locked into circular thinking... unable, for a lifetime, to process anything beyond where the church tells him he can go.

"Only the "magisterium" (pope and bishops) is allowed to interpret the Bible in his world; no one is allowed to question the "holy mother church," etc.

My God says, "Come, let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18)

If you've had RCC drilled into you for a lifetime, and for whatever reason, are willing to buy into it, I suppose you (not you personally ), but whoever, is willing to accept those limitations, rather than insisting on questioning everything, or at least investigating, might react to being challenged by panicking, which seems to be what we are witnessing...

trying to stampede everyone to the official RCC website, which I have studied ad nauseam in the past, - to my own satisfaction, so that I understood where they were coming from, and on what they were erroneously hanging their hat. By "they" I mean the RCC hierarchy, and their doctrines, never individual misguided members.

Brainwashing is brainwashing; - or it could just be arrogance.

How about misguided arrogance?

It does my heart good to see young people (you and others) defend the Bible so eloquently when faced with such desperate obstinancy.

Reply
Oct 24, 2017 20:35:59   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
maryla wrote:
Obviously not. I don't think any other pope has held this view. And that's what it is.....just a view!



Actually, two of the pronouncements were by Pope John Paul II, who had agreed with the sentiments expressed by Pope Francis.

Reply
 
 
Oct 24, 2017 21:06:24   #
maryla
 
Zemirah wrote:
Actually, two of the pronouncements were by Pope John Paul II, who had agreed with the sentiments expressed by Pope Francis.

Well certainly then I was against the church under John Paul.(It was a guess)

Mohammed was born in 632AD so in my mind it qualifies as what I said in Matthew 24:24. The religion(Islam) is led by a false prophet.

Reply
Oct 25, 2017 05:08:22   #
Dummy Boy Loc: Michigan
 
Zemirah wrote:
It's unfortunate that he seems to be locked into circular thinking... unable, for a lifetime, to process anything beyond where the church tells him he can go.

"Only the "magisterium" (pope and bishops) is allowed to interpret the Bible in his world; no one is allowed to question the "holy mother church," etc.

My God says, "Come, let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18)

If you've had RCC drilled into you for a lifetime, and for whatever reason, are willing to buy into it, I suppose you (not you personally ), but whoever, is willing to accept those limitations, rather than insisting on questioning everything, or at least investigating, might react to being challenged by panicking, which seems to be what we are witnessing...

trying to stampede everyone to the official RCC website, which I have studied ad nauseam in the past, - to my own satisfaction, so that I understood where they were coming from, and on what they were erroneously hanging their hat. By "they" I mean the RCC hierarchy, and their doctrines, never individual misguided members.

Brainwashing is brainwashing; - or it could just be arrogance.

How about misguided arrogance?

It does my heart good to see young people (you and others) defend the Bible so eloquently when faced with such desperate obstinancy.
It's unfortunate that he seems to be locked into c... (show quote)


No problem, it's just stunning to me how the arguments he uses are exactly the arguments he should use to question how the rest of us question his Church.

Reply
Oct 25, 2017 12:30:39   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity of the Islamic Qur'an, clearly cannot be one: Yahweh has a Son: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" (1 John:4:14).

Allah has no son: "...Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty..." (Sura 17:111); "Allah hath not chosen any son, nor is there any God along with him" (Sura 23:91).

In a recent interview with a French Catholic newspaper, the pontiff, Pope Francis, suggested it was not productive to think of Islam as a threat and pointed to its shared roots with Christianity “It is true that the idea of conquest is inherent in the soul of Islam," he said. "However, it is also possible to interpret the objective in Matthew’s Gospel, where Jesus sends his disciples to all nations, in terms of the same idea of conquest."

The above title has created controversy among Catholics (and some evangelicals) who have never studied the background of either of these earthbound religions. It reflects the often repeated ambition of the Pontifical Council for "Inter-religious Dialogue." Rome has been pursuing the fertilization of this "common ground" with Islam for decades, per the 1994 Vatican publication, "Recognize the Spiritual Bonds Which Unite Us: 16 Years of Christian-Muslim Dialogue. This is what the Roman Catholic Church has long sought.

There is confusion created by the Church of Rome in her zeal to capture control of the spiritual voice of all the world's religions, she speaks out of both sides of her ecumenical mouth. In her relationship to Islam, she has made theological overtures contradicting Christian orthodoxy, but appallingly worse, there are much deeper existent ties fettering the two religions. Apprehend the commonalities between these two faiths.

Despite, clear and critical differences between the biblical God and Allah, the Roman Catholic Church accepts them as one and the same God. The following quote is from Vatican II:

"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has also spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own.

Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet, his virgin Mother they also honor, and even at times devoutly evoke. Further, they await the day of judgment and the reward of God following the resurrection of the dead. For this reason they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting" (Nostra Aetate, Vatican II).

Careful consideration of the above quote (taken from what the Roman Catholic Church claims is an infallible council) no Christian can escape realizing what truly binds Catholicism and Islam together is: They both have an unbiblical Jesus who cannot save their souls. The Qur'an teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross: "And because of the Jews saying, We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - They slew him not, nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain" (Qur'an Sura 4:157).

Vatican II gives Muslims credit for "venerating" Jesus, but it is a "another Jesus." Sadly, Catholicism also has a false Christ, teaching that His death on the cross was not sufficient for our salvation. They say His sacrifice (which, according to the Scriptures, was offered once for all to take away our sins completely (Hebrews: 9:28) be continually "re-presented" as a daily sacrifice for sins, thousands of times, around the world, but Catholics then, must also expiate their own sins through sufferings on earth and after death in purgatory. This is "another gospel" than that taught by Holy Scripture.

Finally, Vatican II spells out clearly what both Islam and Catholicism regard as their only hope for salvation: "...they highly esteem an upright life and worship God, especially by way of prayer, alms-deeds and fasting." This is works salvation.

In Islam, a person is accountable for every thought, word, and deed. His/her life is to be lived pleasing to Allah as found in the Qur'an and the hadith and shari'a, which is the body of rules covering all Islamic religious, political, social and domestic life. Breaking such laws involves various temporal punishments. At the Last Judgment Allah will determine one's eternal destiny by weighing one's good and evil works on the divine scale: "Then those whose scales are heavy with good deeds, they are the successful. And those whose scales are light are those who lose their souls, in hell abiding" (Qur'an Sura 23:102,103). The hadith vividly describes the tortures of hell.

James McCarthy's video, titled "Catholicism: Crisis of Faith" displays revealing interviews of worshipers leaving Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. He asks them on what basis they expect to get to heaven. Only one made any reference to Jesus. Their response was they felt they were pretty good people, and were fairly confident that their good deeds outweighed their bad ones.

Although the Catholic Church states that it is by God's grace that one can enter heaven, they change that to "grace enables one to do the works which qualify one for heaven." In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, they "obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ" (paragraph 1821) and they "can merit for themselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life" (paragraph 2027).

Pope John Paul II addressed a Catholic community in Turkey with these words: "... it is now urgent, precisely today when Christians and Muslims have entered a new period of history, to recognize and develop the spiritual bonds that unite us."

No! What is "urgent" is that Catholics and Muslims be set free from the spiritual bondage of the impossible task of qualifying for heaven by their own good deeds, and their hearts opened to receive the free gift of eternal life (Romans :6:23) through faith in what Jesus Christ has already completed on their behave.

The similarity between Islam and Catholicism starts at birth, Catholicism and Islam each exceed one billion, nearly all of whom enter their respective faiths as infants. More than 16 million babies are baptized into the Roman Catholic Church each year, and are baptized as Catholics because their parents were Catholics. That's the primary way the faith is propagated, rather than personal belief, for babies have no understanding of the concept of faith.

All children born into a Muslim family are automatically Muslims. Their official "confirmation" follows as soon as they are able to confess the shahada ("There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger"). This baby-oriented process for increasing their ranks has been a motivating factor in the Vatican/Saudi co-sponsored lobby against United Nations endeavors to introduce contraception for population control, especially in third-world countries.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today; Catholicism is the largest religious body among those professing to be Christian. If the number of followers was a good measure for selecting a religion, then Islam and Catholicism would both qualify, however, the Bible has no such yardstick. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which enter. Strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matthew:7:13-14).

People are aware of the veneration and worship of Mary among Roman Catholics, but the same deference exists among Muslims. A chapter in the Qur'an is named after Mary ("Surah Maryam"). From Cairo to Bombay to Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina, multi- thousands of Muslims have congregated to processions carrying her statues and where her apparitions have appeared. She is esteemed above the most revered women of the Muslim faith, including Muhammad's two favorite wives, Khadija and Aisha, and his daughter Fatima.

The hadith teaches that Muhammad selected Mary as his first wife upon entrance into Paradise. A popular Catholic apparition of Mary is referred to as Our Lady of Fatima, the name of Muhammad's daughter.

Catholic and Islamic prayers are similar. For the Muslim, praying to Allah five times a day is an act of obedience; the prayers are always repetitive. As one former Muslim puts it, "It's hardly intimate communication with Allah; ...it's done to escape the punishment due those who neglect prayer."

Most prayers prayed by Catholics are also rote and repetitive, i.e., saying the rosary. Repeating 16 "Our Father's" and 153 "Hail Mary's" is not personal communication. When a Catholic goes to confession the priest assigns rosaries as punishment, or penance, for one's sins. A prayer to God should hardly be considered a form of punishment!

Prayer beads were a part of Islamic devotion to Allah long before an apparition of the Blessed Lady taught St. Dominic to pray the rosary beads in the thirteenth century. Although prayer beads are a stock item in ancient and modern paganism, they are never used in the Bible.

Catholics and Muslims use pilgrimages to obtain God's favor. The hadj, one of the five pillars of Islam, is a required (one-time) journey to Mecca. For Catholics, pilgrimages are historically acts of religious purification, often induced by the promise of indulgences. Multi-millions of Catholics travel yearly to hundreds of shrines dedicated to Mary throughout the world. The Crusades were indulgence-stimulated attempts to regain Jerusalem from the infidel Muslims to re-establish Catholic pilgrimages. The Church of Rome offered the crusaders full pardon from purgatory if they died trying to liberate the Holy Land. Similarly, Islam offers assurance of Paradise to those who die in religious battles (jihad), including suicide bombings.

Roman Catholicism recognizes Allah as the God of the Bible. In 1985, Pope John Paul II declared to an enraptured audience of thousands of Muslim youths, "Christians and Muslims, we have many things in common as believers and as human beings....We believe in the same God, the one and only God, the living God... ." But how is that possible?

Historically, Allah was the supreme pagan idol, of 350 idols worshiped by Muhammad's Quraysh tribe.

Catholicism's zeal to relate to Islam creates wonder about its own perspective on the God of the Bible. In the "Sacred Scripture," God is referred to as Yahweh about 9,000 times. Never is He thus referred to in the Qur'an. He reveals himself in the Scriptures as "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob/Israel." He is the Father of the Jews, "the God of Israel."

In the Qur'an, however, Allah never refers to himself that way. God calls the Jews His "chosen people." He gave them the land of Israel as a heritage "forever": "And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ezekiel: 37:25). God's covenant is with Isaac (Genesis 17: 19-21), while Muslims believe Allah's covenant is with Ishmael, son of the Egyptian slave, Hagar.

Allah has a completely different attitude toward the Jews than does the God of the Bible. Allah commands his followers to "Take not the Jews...for friends" (Qur'an Sura 5:51). The Jews are in the Qur'an called "the people of the book" (i.e., the Bible), and if they refuse to convert to Islam, they must pay a tribute tax, and become subservient to them: "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low" (Sura 9:29). According to the hadith, which Muslims regard as authoritative as the Qur'an, Muhammad says, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill all of them."

The hadith (tradition of Muhammad) says that on the Day of Judgment, Muslims will fight and kill Jews, who will hide behind trees that say, "Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, here is a Jew hiding behind me. Come here and kill him." Roman Catholicism has its own well-documented history of slaughtering the Jews.

Whereas God the Father declared from heaven concerning Jesus, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matthew: 3:17), Allah of the Qur'an condemns such a belief: "...the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth" (Sura 9:30 Qur'an)!

Catholicism approves of and praises Islam, yet has eternal curses from the 16th century Council of Trent still in effect against all Protestants and Christians who do not unite with them.

Truly, this is not Christianity.
Yahweh, God of the Bible, and Allah, supreme deity... (show quote)


Amen and Amen thank you very true all of it.

Reply
Oct 25, 2017 19:56:22   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Zemirah wrote:
It's unfortunate that he seems to be locked into circular thinking... unable, for a lifetime, to process anything beyond where the church tells him he can go.

"Only the "magisterium" (pope and bishops) is allowed to interpret the Bible in his world; no one is allowed to question the "holy mother church," etc.

My God says, "Come, let us reason together." (Isaiah 1:18)

If you've had RCC drilled into you for a lifetime, and for whatever reason, are willing to buy into it, I suppose you (not you personally ), but whoever, is willing to accept those limitations, rather than insisting on questioning everything, or at least investigating, might react to being challenged by panicking, which seems to be what we are witnessing...

trying to stampede everyone to the official RCC website, which I have studied ad nauseam in the past, - to my own satisfaction, so that I understood where they were coming from, and on what they were erroneously hanging their hat. By "they" I mean the RCC hierarchy, and their doctrines, never individual misguided members.

Brainwashing is brainwashing; - or it could just be arrogance.

How about misguided arrogance?

It does my heart good to see young people (you and others) defend the Bible so eloquently when faced with such desperate obstinancy.
It's unfortunate that he seems to be locked into c... (show quote)


What a wonderful thing it is for brethren to dwell together in disunity. Guess what - every Protestant is a heretic and a schismatic. Islam is a false religion but it is an older more ancient faith than Protestantism which is only 500 years old this year. You have no claim to Christian history or Tradition because you have to reject them in order to be a protestant. You can dish out hate but you reject truth and I remind you haters I am not a Roman Catholic. May the confusing, conflicting and hateful peace of the Lord be with you.

Reply
 
 
Oct 26, 2017 00:01:07   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hello, Padre,

How delightful to hear from you.

Biblical Christianity is the original unadorned, unpolluted, New Testament given to us by the eternal Words of Jesus Christ, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the 1st century, to all the believing saints.

Why do you portray yourself as an ignorant man? Do you know your own "religion," at the expense of the Word of God?

It is a shameful thing to accuse the Word of the Lord of being confusing, conflicting and/or hateful. It is not, nor has it ever been, any of these things.

The Apostle Paul said, "In as far as possible, be at peace with all men."

Romans 12:

God's mercies must move us to please God (Not Mankind)
1 Παρακαλῶ οὖν ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, διὰ τῶν οἰκτιρμῶν τοῦ Θεοῦ, παραστῆσαι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν θυσίαν ζῶσαν, ἁγίαν, εὐάρεστον τῷ Θεῷ, τὴν λογικὴν λατρείαν ὑμῶν, 2 καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοὸς ὑμῶν, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον.

No man must think too well of himself
3 Λέγω γὰρ διὰ τῆς χάριτος τῆς δοθείσης μοι παντὶ τῷ ὄντι ἐν ὑμῖν, μὴ ὑπερφρονεῖν παρ' ὃ δεῖ φρονεῖν, ἀλλὰ φρονεῖν εἰς τὸ σωφρονεῖν, ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ Θεὸς ἐμέρισε μέτρον πίστεως. 4 καθάπερ γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ σώματι μέλη πολλὰ ἔχομεν, τὰ δὲ μέλη πάντα οὐ τὴν αὐτὴν ἔχει πρᾶξιν, 5 οὕτως οἱ πολλοὶ ἓν σῶμά ἐσμεν ἐν Χριστῷ, ὁ δὲ καθ' εἷς ἀλλήλων μέλη.

but everyone attend on that calling wherein he is placed
6 ἔχοντες δὲ χαρίσματα κατὰ τὴν χάριν τὴν δοθεῖσαν ἡμῖν διάφορα, εἴτε προφητείαν, κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τῆς πίστεως, 7 εἴτε διακονίαν, ἐν τῇ διακονίᾳ, εἴτε ὁ διδάσκων, ἐν τῇ διδασκαλίᾳ, 8 εἴτε ὁ παρακαλῶν, ἐν τῇ παρακλήσει, ὁ μεταδιδούς, ἐν ἁπλότητι, ὁ προϊστάμενος, ἐν σπουδῇ, ὁ ἐλεῶν, ἐν ἱλαρότητι.

Love, and many other duties are required of us
9 Ἡ ἀγάπη ἀνυπόκριτος. ἀποστυγοῦντες τὸ πονηρόν, κολλώμενοι τῷ ἀγαθῷ, 10 τῇ φιλαδελφίᾳ εἰς ἀλλήλους φιλόστοργοι, τῇ τιμῇ ἀλλήλους προηγούμενοι, 11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, τῷ πνεύματι ζέοντες, τῷ Κυρίῳ δουλεύοντες, 12 τῇ ἐλπίδι χαίροντες, τῇ θλίψει ὑπομένοντες, τῇ προσευχῇ προσκαρτεροῦντες, 13 ταῖς χρείαις τῶν ἁγίων κοινωνοῦντες, τὴν φιλοξενίαν διώκοντες.
14 εὐλογεῖτε τοὺς διώκοντας ὑμᾶς, εὐλογεῖτε καὶ μὴ καταρᾶσθε. 15 χαίρειν μετὰ χαιρόντων καὶ κλαίειν μετὰ κλαιόντων. 16 τὸ αὐτὸ εἰς ἀλλήλους φρονοῦντες. μὴ τὰ ὑψηλὰ φρονοῦντες, ἀλλὰ τοῖς ταπεινοῖς συναπαγόμενοι. μὴ γίνεσθε φρόνιμοι παρ' ἑαυτοῖς. 17 μηδενὶ κακὸν ἀντὶ κακοῦ ἀποδιδόντες. προνοούμενοι καλὰ ἐνώπιον πάντων ἀνθρώπων· 18 εἰ δυνατόν, τὸ ἐξ ὑμῶν μετὰ πάντων ἀνθρώπων εἰρηνεύοντες.
Revenge is especially forbidden
19 μὴ ἑαυτοὺς ἐκδικοῦντες, ἀγαπητοί, ἀλλὰ δότε τόπον τῇ ὀργῇ· γέγραπται γάρ· ἐμοὶ ἐκδίκησις, ἐγὼ ἀνταποδώσω, λέγει Κύριος. 20 ἐὰν οὖν πεινᾷ ὁ ἐχθρός σου, ψώμιζε αὐτόν, ἐὰν διψᾷ, πότιζε αὐτόν· τοῦτο γὰρ ποιῶν ἄνθρακας πυρὸς σωρεύσεις ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν αὐτοῦ. 21 μὴ νικῶ ὑπὸ τοῦ κακοῦ, ἀλλὰ νίκα ἐν τῷ ἀγαθῷ τὸ κακόν."


On the other hand, Jude said:

"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." (The Orthodox Study Bible, Jude 1:3-4)

Question? Comment? -

or do you choose to remain on your condescending high horse of smug superiority, self-righteous condemnation, and haughty self-proclaimed, self-perceived, man-made, over-riding authority?


padremike wrote:
What a wonderful thing it is for brethren to dwell together in disunity. Guess what - every Protestant is a heretic and a schismatic. Islam is a false religion but it is an older more ancient faith than Protestantism which is only 500 years old this year. You have no claim to Christian history or Tradition because you have to reject them in order to be a protestant. You can dish out hate but you reject truth and I remind you haters I am not a Roman Catholic. May the confusing, conflicting and hateful peace of the Lord be with you.
What a wonderful thing it is for brethren to dwell... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 26, 2017 08:50:21   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
bahmer wrote:
Amen and Amen thank you very true all of it.




Thank you, bahmer,

for your spiritual wisdom - to know the truth and speak it.

Reply
Oct 26, 2017 09:22:00   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hello, Padre,

How delightful to hear from you.

Biblical Christianity is the original unadorned, unpolluted, New Testament given to us by the eternal Words of Jesus Christ, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the 1st century, to all the believing saints.

Why do you portray yourself as an ignorant man? Do you know your own "religion," at the expense of the Word of God?

It is a shameful thing to accuse the Word of the Lord of being confusing, conflicting and/or hateful. It is not, nor has it ever been, any of these things.

The Apostle Paul said, "In as far as possible, be at peace with all men."

Romans 12:

God's mercies must move us to please God (Not Mankind)
1 Παρακαλῶ οὖν ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, διὰ τῶν οἰκτιρμῶν τοῦ Θεοῦ, παραστῆσαι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν θυσίαν ζῶσαν, ἁγίαν, εὐάρεστον τῷ Θεῷ, τὴν λογικὴν λατρείαν ὑμῶν, 2 καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοὸς ὑμῶν, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον.

No man must think too well of himself
3 Λέγω γὰρ διὰ τῆς χάριτος τῆς δοθείσης μοι παντὶ τῷ ὄντι ἐν ὑμῖν, μὴ ὑπερφρονεῖν παρ' ὃ δεῖ φρονεῖν, ἀλλὰ φρονεῖν εἰς τὸ σωφρονεῖν, ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ Θεὸς ἐμέρισε μέτρον πίστεως. 4 καθάπερ γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ σώματι μέλη πολλὰ ἔχομεν, τὰ δὲ μέλη πάντα οὐ τὴν αὐτὴν ἔχει πρᾶξιν, 5 οὕτως οἱ πολλοὶ ἓν σῶμά ἐσμεν ἐν Χριστῷ, ὁ δὲ καθ' εἷς ἀλλήλων μέλη.

but everyone attend on that calling wherein he is placed
6 ἔχοντες δὲ χαρίσματα κατὰ τὴν χάριν τὴν δοθεῖσαν ἡμῖν διάφορα, εἴτε προφητείαν, κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τῆς πίστεως, 7 εἴτε διακονίαν, ἐν τῇ διακονίᾳ, εἴτε ὁ διδάσκων, ἐν τῇ διδασκαλίᾳ, 8 εἴτε ὁ παρακαλῶν, ἐν τῇ παρακλήσει, ὁ μεταδιδούς, ἐν ἁπλότητι, ὁ προϊστάμενος, ἐν σπουδῇ, ὁ ἐλεῶν, ἐν ἱλαρότητι.

Love, and many other duties are required of us
9 Ἡ ἀγάπη ἀνυπόκριτος. ἀποστυγοῦντες τὸ πονηρόν, κολλώμενοι τῷ ἀγαθῷ, 10 τῇ φιλαδελφίᾳ εἰς ἀλλήλους φιλόστοργοι, τῇ τιμῇ ἀλλήλους προηγούμενοι, 11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, τῷ πνεύματι ζέοντες, τῷ Κυρίῳ δουλεύοντες, 12 τῇ ἐλπίδι χαίροντες, τῇ θλίψει ὑπομένοντες, τῇ προσευχῇ προσκαρτεροῦντες, 13 ταῖς χρείαις τῶν ἁγίων κοινωνοῦντες, τὴν φιλοξενίαν διώκοντες.
14 εὐλογεῖτε τοὺς διώκοντας ὑμᾶς, εὐλογεῖτε καὶ μὴ καταρᾶσθε. 15 χαίρειν μετὰ χαιρόντων καὶ κλαίειν μετὰ κλαιόντων. 16 τὸ αὐτὸ εἰς ἀλλήλους φρονοῦντες. μὴ τὰ ὑψηλὰ φρονοῦντες, ἀλλὰ τοῖς ταπεινοῖς συναπαγόμενοι. μὴ γίνεσθε φρόνιμοι παρ' ἑαυτοῖς. 17 μηδενὶ κακὸν ἀντὶ κακοῦ ἀποδιδόντες. προνοούμενοι καλὰ ἐνώπιον πάντων ἀνθρώπων· 18 εἰ δυνατόν, τὸ ἐξ ὑμῶν μετὰ πάντων ἀνθρώπων εἰρηνεύοντες.
Revenge is especially forbidden
19 μὴ ἑαυτοὺς ἐκδικοῦντες, ἀγαπητοί, ἀλλὰ δότε τόπον τῇ ὀργῇ· γέγραπται γάρ· ἐμοὶ ἐκδίκησις, ἐγὼ ἀνταποδώσω, λέγει Κύριος. 20 ἐὰν οὖν πεινᾷ ὁ ἐχθρός σου, ψώμιζε αὐτόν, ἐὰν διψᾷ, πότιζε αὐτόν· τοῦτο γὰρ ποιῶν ἄνθρακας πυρὸς σωρεύσεις ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν αὐτοῦ. 21 μὴ νικῶ ὑπὸ τοῦ κακοῦ, ἀλλὰ νίκα ἐν τῷ ἀγαθῷ τὸ κακόν."


On the other hand, Jude said:

"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." (The Orthodox Study Bible, Jude 1:3-4)

Question? Comment? -

or do you choose to remain on your condescending high horse of smug superiority, self-righteous condemnation, and haughty self-proclaimed, self-perceived, man-made, over-riding authority?
Hello, Padre, br br How delightful to hear from y... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 26, 2017 10:17:31   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hello, Padre,

How delightful to hear from you.

Biblical Christianity is the original unadorned, unpolluted, New Testament given to us by the eternal Words of Jesus Christ, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the 1st century, to all the believing saints.

Why do you portray yourself as an ignorant man? Do you know your own "religion," at the expense of the Word of God?

It is a shameful thing to accuse the Word of the Lord of being confusing, conflicting and/or hateful. It is not, nor has it ever been, any of these things.

The Apostle Paul said, "In as far as possible, be at peace with all men."

Romans 12:

God's mercies must move us to please God (Not Mankind)
1 Παρακαλῶ οὖν ὑμᾶς, ἀδελφοί, διὰ τῶν οἰκτιρμῶν τοῦ Θεοῦ, παραστῆσαι τὰ σώματα ὑμῶν θυσίαν ζῶσαν, ἁγίαν, εὐάρεστον τῷ Θεῷ, τὴν λογικὴν λατρείαν ὑμῶν, 2 καὶ μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ, ἀλλὰ μεταμορφοῦσθε τῇ ἀνακαινώσει τοῦ νοὸς ὑμῶν, εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τί τὸ θέλημα τοῦ Θεοῦ, τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ εὐάρεστον καὶ τέλειον.

No man must think too well of himself
3 Λέγω γὰρ διὰ τῆς χάριτος τῆς δοθείσης μοι παντὶ τῷ ὄντι ἐν ὑμῖν, μὴ ὑπερφρονεῖν παρ' ὃ δεῖ φρονεῖν, ἀλλὰ φρονεῖν εἰς τὸ σωφρονεῖν, ἑκάστῳ ὡς ὁ Θεὸς ἐμέρισε μέτρον πίστεως. 4 καθάπερ γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ σώματι μέλη πολλὰ ἔχομεν, τὰ δὲ μέλη πάντα οὐ τὴν αὐτὴν ἔχει πρᾶξιν, 5 οὕτως οἱ πολλοὶ ἓν σῶμά ἐσμεν ἐν Χριστῷ, ὁ δὲ καθ' εἷς ἀλλήλων μέλη.

but everyone attend on that calling wherein he is placed
6 ἔχοντες δὲ χαρίσματα κατὰ τὴν χάριν τὴν δοθεῖσαν ἡμῖν διάφορα, εἴτε προφητείαν, κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τῆς πίστεως, 7 εἴτε διακονίαν, ἐν τῇ διακονίᾳ, εἴτε ὁ διδάσκων, ἐν τῇ διδασκαλίᾳ, 8 εἴτε ὁ παρακαλῶν, ἐν τῇ παρακλήσει, ὁ μεταδιδούς, ἐν ἁπλότητι, ὁ προϊστάμενος, ἐν σπουδῇ, ὁ ἐλεῶν, ἐν ἱλαρότητι.

Love, and many other duties are required of us
9 Ἡ ἀγάπη ἀνυπόκριτος. ἀποστυγοῦντες τὸ πονηρόν, κολλώμενοι τῷ ἀγαθῷ, 10 τῇ φιλαδελφίᾳ εἰς ἀλλήλους φιλόστοργοι, τῇ τιμῇ ἀλλήλους προηγούμενοι, 11 τῇ σπουδῇ μὴ ὀκνηροί, τῷ πνεύματι ζέοντες, τῷ Κυρίῳ δουλεύοντες, 12 τῇ ἐλπίδι χαίροντες, τῇ θλίψει ὑπομένοντες, τῇ προσευχῇ προσκαρτεροῦντες, 13 ταῖς χρείαις τῶν ἁγίων κοινωνοῦντες, τὴν φιλοξενίαν διώκοντες.
14 εὐλογεῖτε τοὺς διώκοντας ὑμᾶς, εὐλογεῖτε καὶ μὴ καταρᾶσθε. 15 χαίρειν μετὰ χαιρόντων καὶ κλαίειν μετὰ κλαιόντων. 16 τὸ αὐτὸ εἰς ἀλλήλους φρονοῦντες. μὴ τὰ ὑψηλὰ φρονοῦντες, ἀλλὰ τοῖς ταπεινοῖς συναπαγόμενοι. μὴ γίνεσθε φρόνιμοι παρ' ἑαυτοῖς. 17 μηδενὶ κακὸν ἀντὶ κακοῦ ἀποδιδόντες. προνοούμενοι καλὰ ἐνώπιον πάντων ἀνθρώπων· 18 εἰ δυνατόν, τὸ ἐξ ὑμῶν μετὰ πάντων ἀνθρώπων εἰρηνεύοντες.
Revenge is especially forbidden
19 μὴ ἑαυτοὺς ἐκδικοῦντες, ἀγαπητοί, ἀλλὰ δότε τόπον τῇ ὀργῇ· γέγραπται γάρ· ἐμοὶ ἐκδίκησις, ἐγὼ ἀνταποδώσω, λέγει Κύριος. 20 ἐὰν οὖν πεινᾷ ὁ ἐχθρός σου, ψώμιζε αὐτόν, ἐὰν διψᾷ, πότιζε αὐτόν· τοῦτο γὰρ ποιῶν ἄνθρακας πυρὸς σωρεύσεις ἐπὶ τὴν κεφαλὴν αὐτοῦ. 21 μὴ νικῶ ὑπὸ τοῦ κακοῦ, ἀλλὰ νίκα ἐν τῷ ἀγαθῷ τὸ κακόν."


On the other hand, Jude said:

"Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." (The Orthodox Study Bible, Jude 1:3-4)

Question? Comment? -

or do you choose to remain on your condescending high horse of smug superiority, self-righteous condemnation, and haughty self-proclaimed, self-perceived, man-made, over-riding authority?
Hello, Padre, br br How delightful to hear from y... (show quote)


And, pray tell, what do you ignorant protestants think you're accomplishing by attacking Roman Catholics if not being condescending, high horse, smug superiority, etc, etc, etc? How in the world did Christianity grow without a full Canon of scripture for 300 years? The answer is oral tradition and the teachings of the apostles. You cannot have an understanding of scripture without the "Traditions" and history of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church to give the true interpretation and theology to support it. You correctly quoted the Epistle of Jude that the Faith was once, for all times, delivered by Christ to the apostles: nothing added for salvation and nothing taken away. If you truly desire correct interpretation of this critical piece of scripture goggle Vincent of Lerins commentary on the word Catholic. The names of the people he mentions did precisely what protestants have done to scripture - interpreting apart from the historical/Traitional church promoting heresies and schism. (The Orthodox study bible is probably one of the best but, as a protestant, much of the teachings and interpretations it contains you must deny.) Protestantism has committed both, heresy and schism, because you have as many different interpretations of scripture as you have denominations, sects, cults, subsects all claiming their interpretation is the only way. The only thing you agree on is that you all hate Catholics. I remind you again I'm not a Roman Catholic but they have more in common with the original Christian church than every Protestant denomination. I know you hate it but, nevertheless, it is true! Your Christian charity sucks when it comes to Rome. Some of us pray for all Christians to be one. You silly bigots pray against the Roman Church and you do it out of invincible ignorance! Your entire ethos is one of conflict and division hence over 25,000 different denominations, sects, cults, subsects, etc. That is why I said that your concept of the peace if Christ is conflicting, confusing, etc. Oh I know it drives you insane to be called heretics but when the shoe fits......... and you too have your own pope. It's call "my sects interpretation of the King James Bible" and its a paper pope - the printed word without the Spirit.

Reply
Page 1 of 5 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Faith, Religion, Spirituality
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.