S. Maturin

Gee, I dunno-- it all seems connected, somehow.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

""Man's problems aren't political, they're fundamentally philosophical. Until we solve our philosophical problems we're condemned to repeat our political problems over and over again. It's a cruel repetitious bore. " Tom Robbins (iconic 60's and '70s author)" - JaneB

So our kids are given a good liberal education from liberals to set them on the right path. (sarcasm)

Problem solvers solving the "philosophical problems" they created.

"Many who were born on third base think they hit a triple. I think it would be very difficult to find anyone who reached their goal without help along the way." - JaneB
Always there to help?
I wonder?
I don't see this Republic progressing in regards to poverty and debt.

S. Maturin

Liberal/progressive welfare with cradle-to-grave entitlements have incubated and hatched millions of 'gimmedats' who would not help themselves out of a sure drowning... they do not learn to swim because they do not want to learn how to swim. So there it is.

Take the liberal dominance of public schooling.. as referred to above.. the liberal/progressives have devised an edumacational sistim from an educational system. The kids- especially males- deeply resent the idea of going to school and show that by their drop-out rates, especially among blacks. So, those males drop out by the thousands, go thumping about all their lives as unemployable, dangerous loads on society demanding *entitlements* the liberal/progressives are only too willing to give them so to 'hook' them on free shat just like how their drug lords will 'hook' them on drugs.

How can a republic 'of the people, by the people, for the people' survive with vast numbers of professional 'gimmedats'? Not a rhetorical question, BTW.

JaneB

I’m curious, S. Maturin, how many black males have you worked with in an educational setting?

How many black males do you know well enough to know what their resentments are and their reasons for dropping out of school?
How much do you know about our current standard education models and whether or how it departs from the real education system you believe we used to have?

Do you know what Einstein said about education back in the day you thought it was so exemplary?

To a student: “Dear Miss - I have read about sixteen pages of your manuscript . . . I suffered exactly the same treatment at the hands of my teachers who disliked me for my independence and passed over me when they wanted assistants. . . . Keep your manuscript for your sons and daughters, in order that they may derive consolation from it and not give a damn for what their teachers tell them or think of them.”

"And certainly we should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. It cannot lead, it can only serve…The only real valuable thing is intuition."

“The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education."

“I never came upon any of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking.”

We have two brain hemispheres but education emphasizes just the left hemisphere...basically, reading, writing and arithmetic. Rational thinking is left hemisphere…veeeery important, but not as important as imagination, intuition and other right brain specialties. Education is boring and irrelevant to millions of kids. There’s more to life and more to education than the technology, health care, pharmaceutical, legal, insurance, and financial services industries would have you believe.

JaneB

We’re more than just economic integers. But we have a materialist, mechanistic set of operating assumptions (recognizing only what is physical, measureable and publicly observable as real…believing the universe runs like a big, predictable, indifferent,machine), so the right brain realm of non-material reality, perceptions, dimensions and values is ignored. Ironically, at great cost.

Years before it became a now rather regular occurrence (like terrorist attacks), education executive Lisa Delpit wrote:

"And education is not just failing black students. Engaging almost any middle- or high-schooler, regardless of ethnicity or social class, in a real conversation about schools will inevitably leave one with a sense of vacuousness of much schooling...I cannot help but believe that the past decades phenomenon of white middle-class students turning into assassins [and turning to antidepressants] is connected to the emptiness of what many of our students call schooling. There continue to be dedicated, thoughtful, committed teachers in our schools but the narrowing focus since No Child Left Behind has driven them to despair as their administrators mandate more and more meaningless, mechanistic goals."

Do you think that's some liberal agenda?

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

JanetB; Two questions;
What is your opinion on the Common Core curriculum?
Do you believe in teaching phonics or rote, for teaching children to read?

JaneB

I am not a fan of Common Core or teaching to standardized tests.

I am not a fan of teaching left brain subjects (math/science/technology/engineering and verbal skills) as the virtually exclusive goal of education.

I am not a fan of education that treats the aspects of intelligence replicable by computers as the definition of intelligence. We have a whole hemisphere of the brain wired for imagination, introspection, non-linear thinking, intuition (non-rational, not irrational), interconnectedness, and transcendent thinking but it's been (wrongly) assumed that whole right half of the brain (the half Einstein said was more important) was not worth engaging or developing as part of education. That's a lot of prime real estate to waste.

And the emotional brain - that we share with animals and mammals - is not deemed important enough to figure out how to effectively develop it. Or our reptilian brain/nervous system. William James said "The chief aim of education should be to make our nervous system our ally instead of our enemy," but we do nothing for it, except invite in legions of mental health workers to label kids (at ever younger ages) and get them in the pharmaceutical system - and special ed which has now been called a pipeline to prison.

I have not taught reading or observed the teaching of reading. But I can tell you that I believe the best way to teach reading is by reading a lot to kids...stories that they would be interested in and that would trigger their imagination in positive ways...so that they have a love of reading, and then I would assume there should be a range of methodologies because kids are each so different and what works for one or some won't work for others. I happen to care about all kids, not just the ones who share my demographics, skin color, or learning propensities.

I know kids are a lot smarter and naturally passionate about learning than we give them credit for. But if what or how we teach can't accommodate a broader understanding that intelligence is more than just intellect and left brain materialist, info, then we will continue to lose 5000 kids a day who drop out of school because they are bored to death or tired of being told they're dumb by bureaucrats and thoroughly conditioned instructors who haven't had an original thought - or been allowed to have an original thought - since they started 1st grade and imagination was considered little kid-stuff. Just like the saying "Curiosity killed the cat"...education back in my/the day was no champion of real human development. Learn to sit in rows, believe what you're told, and be trained to work for the captains of industry.

I was raised to question authority and think for myself. I look for what works and what improves people...not what furthers systems that can only boast epidemic rates of every kind of dysfunction.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

"I am not a fan of Common Core or teaching to standardized tests" - JaneB
Well that is a start.


"I have not taught reading or observed the teaching of reading. But I can tell you that I believe the best way to teach reading is by reading a lot to kids...stories that they would be interested in and that would trigger their imagination in positive ways...so that they have a love of reading, and then I would assume there should be a range of methodologies because kids are each so different and what works for one or some won't work for others. I happen to care about all kids, not just the ones who share my demographics, skin color, or learning propensities." - JaneB
A long way around in not answering;
Do you believe in phonics over rote?
Bretty basic.The public school system went largely to rote in the 60's if I recall.
I taught my daughter to read by reading to her the Mother goose nursery rhymes. As I read my finger followed the sentences, as she watched. She has them memorized and wanted to read them to me at three. Then came phonics with flash cards. She was reading as three.
School was easy and fun for her from Kindergarten (1987) on.
Tops in her class at UCLA.
It is up to parents to do what is not taken care of by their schools in their begining years. How sad for those that don't.

JaneB

I think I mentioned I am not into memorization (which is teaching to tests) - which to me is rote learning - reading, 'riting or 'rithmetic. I also said reading to (and with) your kids is a fab way to start them. My daughter graduated as the Finnegan award nominee for the business school at Boston College and my son just graduated from U of MN in biological sciences. What I am most proud of is their character as responsible and caring human beings. In college during spring break my daughter helped build homes in New Orleans and the Appalachians when others hit the beach. My son is an emergency medical technician and a youth lacrosse coach (largely a volunteer job). My daughter whizzed through everything. My son had to navigate some not uncommon learning challenges - in reading - that his very-good-public-school did not know how to address (and should know how to avoid). If some kids learn by rote (and obviously some do) then have it as an option. Do you not believe in different learning styles?

It is indeed very sad that far too many parents raise kids without the needed support in academic readiness, or social and emotional readiness for that matter. Schools, however, are the one place that have consistent access to kids from age 6-17 and can deliver instruction to help them live fulfilling, healthy, effective lives with positive relationships. Unfortunately education has been a central factor...or factory...contributing to epidemic levels of drop outs, special ed, and kids on medication for ADD, anxiety, and depression. Did you know that 30% of college students (yeah, including kids who could read really well at a young age) report being too depressed to function?

I have been a capacity development trainer for populations ranging from Fortune 100 executives and medical professionals to the most seriously emotionally and behaviorally disordered youth and maximum security inmates. I can assure you that education is missing more than just the best ways to teach reading. Those focused on a tree or two can't see the whole forest. The left hemisphere (that education virtually exclusively develops) is wired for a focu on analyzing (and categorizing/labeling) separate parts and pieces - the physical symptoms, the right sees the interconnections and the bigger picture - the underlying causes. We are operating in the wrong paradigm, the wrong set of operating assumptions, so all our institutions and aims to problem solve have a very weak foundation.

We are witnessing the logical conclusion to the Cartesian/Newtonian/materialist/mechanistic paradigm that emerged about 350 years ago. It's dangerously inadequate. The replacement has been around for decades but it's the ultimate disruption of status quo and everyone making a living off the current view of reality and humanity, and the institutions/systems born of it, will dogmatically (despite the evidence) resist the challenge/change.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

We agree on a lot of important issues here.Jane.
you are aparently highly educated, and tale a liberal perspective.
We differ on this:
I believe the mess/uneducating has been imposed on our kids by design, and by the liberal NEA union. There is an agenda, beyond stupidity.
The destruction of reading capabilities, is at the core of it.

The brinks us to who in not able to see "the forest from the trees".

We BOTH see the results.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

I have a friend that is in charge of a floor at the county juvenile lock up. almost all the kids on his "pod" are in high school. He says none, none can read cursive. They don't even teach it anymore. However; they can text like the devil.

eagleye13 Loc: Fl

Yep, those running "public education" are diabolical.
It goes way beyond stupidity.

S. Maturin

Incredible. I'm not sure where to begin, but thinking that a reply would simply trigger another unrelated tirade -- well, this will have to suffice.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Not incredible. Waste of time. We've seen these experts in prose, punctuation, and the proper sentence structure. Yet dare to disagree with their rock solid beliefs, (until they aren't rock solid beliefs) no matter the proof and off they go into the universe of useless blather.

S. Maturin

True. And, not only that there was a lot of dated misinformation thrown out as our newest authority on education- edumacation- dropped that on us.