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Apr 20, 2017 16:11:10   #
QuestGirl Loc: Jayhawk Country
 
Weaver wrote:
As long as Americans have the good life they will do nothing to sink the ship. The rich are making good money, the middle class ,while struggling, is still making it for the most part and the poor are receiving hand outs, that to some that are more than the lower middle class make.WHAT IF IT ALL STOPS! The rich leave the country, the middle class no longer have jobs and the poor no longer receive any help. Just saying, WHAT IF.


What if.... Americans won't wake up until ATM's stop spitting out $$$. The rich (edging into 2%'ers) will still be rich, safe in their bunkers. What if...will happen then.(?)

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Apr 20, 2017 16:37:06   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
QuestGirl wrote:
What if.... Americans won't wake up until ATM's stop spitting out $$$. The rich (edging into 2%'ers) will still be rich, safe in their bunkers. What if...will happen then.(?)


We will go and plug up those bunkers air supply vents. When they come out to clear the blockage we will go in and then we will be 1 % people as well. Not me personally, but someone.

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Apr 20, 2017 17:45:03   #
QuestGirl Loc: Jayhawk Country
 
pafret wrote:
We will go and plug up those bunkers air supply vents. When they come out to clear the blockage we will go in and then we will be 1 % people as well. Not me personally, but someone.


It won't be me either, pafret. The last time I wished I were older I was 12, just sayin'....

Reply
 
 
Apr 20, 2017 17:54:18   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
ACP45 wrote:
By Andrew P. Napolitano
April 20, 2017

What if our belief in self-government is a belief in a myth? What if the election of one political party over the other to control Congress changes only appearances? What if taxes stay high and regulations stay pervasive and the government stays oppressive and presidents fight wars no matter what the politicians promise and no matter who wins elections? What if the true goal of those whom we elect to Congress is not to be our agents of self-government or even to preserve our personal liberties but to remain in power by getting re-elected?

What if they use government to aid their own re-elections by bribing us with our own money — the rich with bailouts, the middle class with tax breaks and the poor with transfer payments?

What if Congress has written laws that are too complex for its own members to read and understand? What if the language of most federal laws is intentionally arcane so that ordinary voters cannot understand it? What if that language is actually written by faceless bureaucrats and not by accountable members of Congress? What if members of Congress in fact rarely read any legislation before voting on it? What if some legislation refers to secrets and secret procedures that only a few members of Congress are permitted to see and utilize?

What if when the select few members of Congress who are permitted to see those secrets do see them, those members are themselves sworn to secrecy? What if that means that our elected representatives — our supposed agents of self-government in the government — do not fully know what the government is doing and that even if they do, they can’t legally tell us?

What if our representatives in Congress don’t really represent us? What if they really represent a political party? What if each political party is controlled by a small leadership group that punishes members who defy it? What if Congress has written laws and rules that permit its leaders to punish members’ defiance? What if another way to characterize defiance of political party leadership is political courage?

What if the laws that Congress has written about the CIA have delegated congressional power to a small secret committee of members from both houses of Congress and both political parties? What if that committee can authorize secret wars in foreign lands conducted not by the military but by the CIA? What if the reason these folks authorize the CIA and not the military to conduct secret wars is the existence of federal laws that require reporting to and a vote of the entire Congress for the military to be used but require only the small secret committee to approve for the CIA to be used?

Because wars cost money and often cost lives, what if the effect of the decisions of the small secret committee is that the committee is basically a Congress within Congress? What if the Constitution says that only Congress can spend tax dollars and declare wars but Congress has let the Congress within Congress do this? What if the voters will never know what the Congress within Congress has authorized? What if the very existence of the Congress within Congress mocks, defies and betrays the concept of American self-government?

What if the data seen and discussed and the decisions made in secret by the Congress within Congress are generated by the CIA and other intelligence agencies? What if these intelligence agencies selectively reveal and selectively conceal data to manipulate the decisions of the Congress within Congress? What if those manipulations often result in bloodshed about which the American people often never learn? What if the bases for the decisions of the Congress within Congress are kept from the other members of Congress, from the media and from the voters?

What if the folks from both political parties who set up the Congress within Congress care more about wielding power than they do about preserving self-government? What if those who pull the levers of power in the intelligence community are so far removed from the voters that they don’t know and don’t care what the voters think? What if they know that the voters would react forcefully and decisively if the voters knew what the members of the Congress within Congress know but they still won’t tell us?

What if all this diversion of power from the elected Congress to the Congress within Congress and all this reliance on secret data has resulted in the most pervasive surveillance by any government of any people at any time in world history? What if the federal government’s domestic surveillance today captures and retains digital copies of every telephone call and every computer keystroke of every person in America and has done so since 2005? What if members of Congress who are not in the Congress within Congress do not know this?

What if the Congress within Congress has authorized American spies to spy without personal suspicion or judicial warrant on the military, the courts, the police and every person in America, including the remaining members of Congress, much of the remaining intelligence community itself and even the White House?

What if the selective use of the data acquired from mass surveillance can be used to manipulate anyone by those who have access to the data? What if those who have access to the data have used it to manipulate the president of the United States? What if all this constitutes a grave but largely unseen threat to our liberties, not the least of which is the right to self-government?

What if we don’t really govern ourselves? What do we do about it?
By Andrew P. Napolitano br April 20, 2017 br br W... (show quote)


What do you mean WHAT IF.......
Everything you said is already reality....Then again that's exactly your point.isn't it ACP45..... Well done!!

Reply
Apr 20, 2017 18:12:06   #
Armagh
 
What if the surveillance teams of Congress and the surveillance teams of the Congress within Congress spy on each other?

Spy vs. Spy. (Mad Magazine).

What, me worry?

Reply
Apr 20, 2017 18:13:00   #
Armagh
 
Forgot to add:

What if the surveillance teams of the Congress within Congress are supported by global actors? What then?

Reply
Apr 20, 2017 18:31:56   #
Armagh
 
http://www.danteross.com/blogs/dante/files/2009/06/spy-vs-spy.jpg

Reply
 
 
Apr 20, 2017 18:51:41   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Armagh wrote:
Forgot to add:

What if the surveillance teams of the Congress within Congress are supported by global actors? What then?


What IF, again?? Already are ....

Reply
Apr 20, 2017 19:06:27   #
Armagh
 
lindajoy wrote:
What IF, again?? Already are ....


Well, we're looking into it....for specifics.

Reply
Apr 20, 2017 22:04:34   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
Armagh wrote:
Well, we're looking into it....for specifics.


I bet there will be the same result......Although we do have another team in now~~At least some of it.....

Reply
Apr 20, 2017 22:06:36   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Armagh wrote:
Well, we're looking into it....for specifics.


Why don't you form a committee, hold hearings and investigate for a couple of years and then issue a final report concluding there was nothing to it?

Reply
 
 
Apr 21, 2017 10:33:29   #
samtheyank
 
ACP45 wrote:
By Andrew P. Napolitano
April 20, 2017

What if our belief in self-government is a belief in a myth? What if the election of one political party over the other to control Congress changes only appearances? What if taxes stay high and regulations stay pervasive and the government stays oppressive and presidents fight wars no matter what the politicians promise and no matter who wins elections? What if the true goal of those whom we elect to Congress is not to be our agents of self-government or even to preserve our personal liberties but to remain in power by getting re-elected?

What if they use government to aid their own re-elections by bribing us with our own money — the rich with bailouts, the middle class with tax breaks and the poor with transfer payments?

What if Congress has written laws that are too complex for its own members to read and understand? What if the language of most federal laws is intentionally arcane so that ordinary voters cannot understand it? What if that language is actually written by faceless bureaucrats and not by accountable members of Congress? What if members of Congress in fact rarely read any legislation before voting on it? What if some legislation refers to secrets and secret procedures that only a few members of Congress are permitted to see and utilize?

What if when the select few members of Congress who are permitted to see those secrets do see them, those members are themselves sworn to secrecy? What if that means that our elected representatives — our supposed agents of self-government in the government — do not fully know what the government is doing and that even if they do, they can’t legally tell us?

What if our representatives in Congress don’t really represent us? What if they really represent a political party? What if each political party is controlled by a small leadership group that punishes members who defy it? What if Congress has written laws and rules that permit its leaders to punish members’ defiance? What if another way to characterize defiance of political party leadership is political courage?

What if the laws that Congress has written about the CIA have delegated congressional power to a small secret committee of members from both houses of Congress and both political parties? What if that committee can authorize secret wars in foreign lands conducted not by the military but by the CIA? What if the reason these folks authorize the CIA and not the military to conduct secret wars is the existence of federal laws that require reporting to and a vote of the entire Congress for the military to be used but require only the small secret committee to approve for the CIA to be used?

Because wars cost money and often cost lives, what if the effect of the decisions of the small secret committee is that the committee is basically a Congress within Congress? What if the Constitution says that only Congress can spend tax dollars and declare wars but Congress has let the Congress within Congress do this? What if the voters will never know what the Congress within Congress has authorized? What if the very existence of the Congress within Congress mocks, defies and betrays the concept of American self-government?

What if the data seen and discussed and the decisions made in secret by the Congress within Congress are generated by the CIA and other intelligence agencies? What if these intelligence agencies selectively reveal and selectively conceal data to manipulate the decisions of the Congress within Congress? What if those manipulations often result in bloodshed about which the American people often never learn? What if the bases for the decisions of the Congress within Congress are kept from the other members of Congress, from the media and from the voters?

What if the folks from both political parties who set up the Congress within Congress care more about wielding power than they do about preserving self-government? What if those who pull the levers of power in the intelligence community are so far removed from the voters that they don’t know and don’t care what the voters think? What if they know that the voters would react forcefully and decisively if the voters knew what the members of the Congress within Congress know but they still won’t tell us?

What if all this diversion of power from the elected Congress to the Congress within Congress and all this reliance on secret data has resulted in the most pervasive surveillance by any government of any people at any time in world history? What if the federal government’s domestic surveillance today captures and retains digital copies of every telephone call and every computer keystroke of every person in America and has done so since 2005? What if members of Congress who are not in the Congress within Congress do not know this?

What if the Congress within Congress has authorized American spies to spy without personal suspicion or judicial warrant on the military, the courts, the police and every person in America, including the remaining members of Congress, much of the remaining intelligence community itself and even the White House?

What if the selective use of the data acquired from mass surveillance can be used to manipulate anyone by those who have access to the data? What if those who have access to the data have used it to manipulate the president of the United States? What if all this constitutes a grave but largely unseen threat to our liberties, not the least of which is the right to self-government?

What if we don’t really govern ourselves? What do we do about it?
By Andrew P. Napolitano br April 20, 2017 br br W... (show quote)


We need to live under Communism at it was truly intended w/o some idiot like Lenin or Stalin making it a dictatorship. If the wealth and materialism can be spread around equally, there would be peace and a lack of want by the masses. For those who accumulate vast sums of wealth, like corporations, there will be policies to punish them and take it away to satisfy the needs of the many that outweigh the needs of the few.

Reply
Apr 21, 2017 10:59:02   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
samtheyank wrote:
We need to live under Communism at it was truly intended w/o some idiot like Lenin or Stalin making it a dictatorship. If the wealth and materialism can be spread around equally, there would be peace and a lack of want by the masses. For those who accumulate vast sums of wealth, like corporations, there will be policies to punish them and take it away to satisfy the needs of the many that outweigh the needs of the few.


Are you serious Sam, or is this sarcasim???????

Reply
Apr 21, 2017 11:06:03   #
Big Bass
 
lindajoy wrote:
Are you serious Sam, or is this sarcasim???????

"Everyone is equal in the eyes of the Lord." (On one hand.)
On the other, this equality would only work if everybody was identical. The human spirit creates leaders, followers and sheeple. Sheeple embrace communism, because they need someone (government) to control and run every facet of their miserable little lives.

Reply
Apr 21, 2017 11:18:30   #
dbamerican
 
What if we the people do nothing? It would appear like we have been moving in this direction for quite some time.
The last eight years have punctuated some of the goals know only to those who wanf to rule he World and create a
new centralized power. Hence, we educate our children, let ISIS destroy foreign countries and their leaders to make
it easier to establish a New World Order. America has what it takes to right our government and convinced other
countries, many allies to join a revolution to refurbish a world without wars and can work together to establish a
real and meaningful pleace. Now that;s a real and constructive WHAT IF...........

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